Why is 'WOW' referenced?

Discuss The Nameless Mod in a safe, spoiler-free environment.
Warning: Spoilers are punishable by death.

Moderator: TNM Team

Forum rules
NO SPOILERS ALLOWED.
Post Reply
ikaricrime
Thug
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 10:19 pm

Why is 'WOW' referenced?

Post by ikaricrime »

For those that don't know. I worked on two of the maps on The Nameless Mod. At the time, I thought nothing about where this mod would actually end up. Now there's mod which are being picked up by publishers and even making money and careers out of them and this isn't one of them!

That isn't the problem I have! The problem I have is that to see all my hard work (even if it was just three years worth of work compared to the time everyone else did for 7 years) see it get handed to something like World of Warcraft.

What do I mean by this?

Throughout the mod, there are references to other IPs and Trademarks on objects in the mod. This starts in the first apartment you visit seeing that Bugatti, then the music discs and DVD and then those maps with Resident Evil and Minority Report maps and even Trestkon talking about World of Warcraft towards the end.

I'm not going to lie, no one called out on these references back then when they some screenshot were posted on PDX hosted by Gamespy (like the CDs) and now looking back at it and after some growing up not just over games but in the workforce. I find it embarrassing that I worked so hard on my maps and then to see Treskton talking about World of Warcraft. Why does World of Warcraft have free advertising this mod when there mods out there that don't care about that stuff and got their upgrades in place and making money from it?

It's not only that... who knows which publisher would pick up this mod. They wouldn't now because they have references to really silly things like World of Warcraft and all these IPs and Trademarks.

How this happened in the first place?

We weren't aware of the success of the mod. At the time, it was all for fun, of course and it was released with such support. With the success of this mod, looking around, I dream of seeing this mod published, After all my researched, I would say this mod doesn't get published because of those references that shouldn't even been there. Those references don't contribute to the mod at all, other then the banter.

All these other mods are getting published and there's even Steam! Steam isn't just about money and selling, they have the best support when it comes down to statistics.

The good news is that this can be edited. Surprisingly, the objects were thrown in and can be fictionalized to spoof those movies and replaced. So it's actually forgivable. It's the same with maps as well. I'm not concerned about the voice acting. This is why I make this post and I do think it's can be changed. I'm sure everyone has grown up now and see what I see when it comes to trademarks and IP disputes.

I blame the REAL IP and Trademark placements in this mod for letting us down and not taking this mod further and I do think it can be replaced and fictionalized.

A fictionalized mod to replace this stuff would a great start if anyone wants to help to make it feel more internet and unreal. Just fine a list of really crappy movies that we don't like and spoof them and replace the current textures. I have respect for everyone's interests of movies and CDs in this mod but I think it shouldn't have been in this mod but it's does fit the lifestyle nicely to what is in this mod.
Quincel
Thug
Posts: 27
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:39 pm

Re: Why is 'WOW' referenced?

Post by Quincel »

Out of interest, which two maps did you work on?

As for your main post, personally I don't think putting in shout-outs to influences or jokes about other games was a grave blunder. The mod was never about selling, though it did help build a CV for a few well-deserving people.
User avatar
Jonas
Off Topic Productions
Off Topic Productions
Posts: 14224
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2004 9:21 pm
Location: Hafnia

Re: Why is 'WOW' referenced?

Post by Jonas »

Your post is infuriatingly naïve.

TNM was never going to be a commercial project, for several reasons. The obvious one: it's a mod, and it uses a ton of code and assets from Deus Ex. The even more obvious one: it's made with gameplay and graphics that is now 13 years old - this heavily restricts its appeal to that comparatively small niche of people who are okay with the game looking the way it does, usually because they still remember Deus Ex fondly.

Third, and not least, something like 70 people contributed to the creation of this mod. If it were ever "picked up" for commercial release, you would first have to track all those people down (many of them, we don't even know their real names), then you'd have to get their written permission to make money off of their work, and assuming they'd demand a cut of the profits, you'd have a hell of a time working out a fair profit sharing scheme based on how much time and effort each contributor put into the game.

It was a labour of love, and the best we could have hoped for was offers of employment for the core team members, or in the very best case scenario an offer to have a commercial game funded that would be loosely based on the concept of TNM. In either case, the actual contents of the game would be irrelevant.

You're also missing another crucial point: TNM stole shit from all over the Internet. It's full of posters, textures, bits of text - articles, blog posts, song lyrics quoted in emails - that was just copied from some website without asking for permission. This isn't because we were trying to make sure we couldn't make money off of it - like I've explained, that was never going to happen in the first place - but because TNM is a huge damn game world and for a handful of hobbyists to populate a setting like that with shit is a pretty big mouthful. In fact the responsibility of putting things like posters, CD's, movies, and so on in the game mostly fell on me, and grabbing whatever stuff I felt like using was the only way to make that happen in a reasonable time frame. Same goes for the e-mails - you know how many emails, books, and magazines are in that damn game? I wrote like 80-90% of that text myself, you bet your ass I grabbed some stuff off the Internet to fill the rest of the info devices.

And finally... it wouldn't have been the same game without all those references.

TNM is a mod about pop culture - it's not just about Deus Ex, and nothing but Deus Ex, because that would've gotten real old. It's about fan communities, and the Internet, and pop culture. Without referencing all those other works, it wouldn't have resonated the way it did with a lot of people. You know our original end quotes were all pretentious quotes from great philosophers? They sat in the game for months before I finally realised how phony that was - these weren't intellectual, meaningful quotes from works that I had read and decided to use because of the way they put TNM's themes into a broader context, not like at the end of Deus Ex. I'd found that shit on Wikiquote. I took them out and replaced them with all sorts of random quotes from artworks that I'd actually personally enjoyed: rock music, graphic novels... and Shakespeare. It's a completely random and esoteric collection of works to draw from, but TNM is full of random and esoteric references, it draws inspiration from EVERYWHERE, partially because it's made by a TON of different people.

I just don't think you get what The Nameless Mod is all about. If you did, you'd never complain about this kind of thing. If TNM couldn't reference pop culture, TNM would not have the kind of soul and personality that it ended up with.

Plus, you know... fair use.
Jonas Wæver
Chief Poking Manager of TNM

I've made some videogames:
Expeditions: Rome
Expeditions: Viking
Expeditions: Conquistador
Clandestine
that guy
The Nameless Mod
The Nameless Mod
Posts: 1312
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2004 1:54 am
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: Why is 'WOW' referenced?

Post by that guy »

Also the EULA for the SDK indicates that everything produced using it is owned by Eidos so even if it was comercialized, no one who worked on it would make any money.
kelseyradley
Thug
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2023 1:50 am

Re: Why is 'WOW' referenced?

Post by kelseyradley »

Furthermore, according to the SDK's EULA, everything created with it is held by Eidos, meaning that even if it were sold, the people who worked on it would not profit.  bitlife 
kunaal
Mole Person
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2024 7:26 am

Russian Delhi Escorts Agency

Post by kunaal »

A common girl can hardly please your physical fashion, that’s why you require an escort. It is a well-known fact that each escort is well skilled and qualified in the art of lovemaking. She will make certain that you get the finest physical knowledge of your life. If you have not qualified bliss of sensual enjoyment it is the right time for you to do that. Russian Escort Delhi will fully change your observation of life; it will give positive input in your life.
Post Reply