Question about the Damage System

[Blade sword]

Only at master level but all weapons are devastating in master the pistol is powerful the sniper is a great weapon too, the AR with 5 is great,the assault shotgun oh my god it's more devastating but I would try some realistic play because on hard the game is ... hard I've been forced to play full infiltration or with silent / well covered kills, for that reason I play on medium for the combat flexibility and enjoyment.
But the AR is less efficient than any weapon in the game and the master level is too powerful because the guns doesn't have any recoil
even a pistol shot should make my body in orange and the minicrossbow 25 dg per dart but I will make a try on realistic

EDIT1: I tried DX on realistic now and I don't find a major difficulty I play without any cheats just realistic settings and a normal game without cheats, but I don't fighted enemies with assault rifles yet.
It was amazing the damage we can take, but the enemies appears to be more fragile too, even if the sniper guys are a terror and the robots make a ton of damages.
I think since the 2001's I did a lot of progress ^^

EDIT2: A little fights against MJ12 soldiers armed with ARs the AR was set at 5 dg, the game was more interesting with AR that deal 5 dg, my dmg settings was completely fair the AR is effective now we need just to avoid to take damages, if we move the AR lose its efficiency like in athe other settings also it became a good weapon just like the autoshotgun, I will try this later ^^ I didn't loose my legs but the AR fights were more interesting

[Xenesis]

Yeah, realistic isn't necessarily harder than hard but it really makes you appreciate what each of the weapons do. Basically, in realistic if you make good engagement decisions (knifing someone in the back, sniping at long range, etc. etc.) your target will die effortlessly and painlessly on your part. If you make bad decisions (trying to knife an AR Wielding NPC in the face) you'll get killed effortlessly and painfully.

[Blade sword]

It makes the combats harder, and doesn't give to the player the choice to make much mistakes, but the realistic mode just proved that an AR with 5 dg is the best choice and balance, when I fight enemies with assault rifles they are terrible only at short range short range close to point blank more damage for that weapon is a true balance. the AR soldiers are harder to fight and the AR is now a good weapon.
but knife a soldier in face is just a bad choice whatever the weapon he carries, we need to strike it first with two well placed strikes and the third will achieve them.

[Xenesis]

The AR was never a bad weapon in any way, though. It's pretty much the most reliable short-ranged combat weapon. Combined with the fact it has a built in grenade launcher it's pretty amazing. I stopped using it after my first playthrough or two because of how amazing it was.

[Blade sword]

Compared to other weapons of the same category it's the weakest, not the grenade launcher, this one is too powerful and too spammy, but the bullets, perhaps the overall makes it good.
But I prefer to get more damaging bullets and a less spammy explosive launcher than the original configuration, 5dg for bullets with less accuracy, more recoil and a one clip grenade launcher make it correct and more balanced.
In the last deus ex playthroughs I stopped using that rifle for its bullets except for spending them ....

[DDL]

I'm still thinking it's good enough as is, personally.

It's light enough damagewise that bog-standard idiot enemies wielding it aren't deadly, and yet heavy enough damagewise that YOU wielding it at high weaponskill are a death dealing machine.

I mean, come on: you can kill Walton Simons with it without even needing to reload.

And no, I don't mean "by using the grenade launcher"...

[odawali]

Is TNM open to balance changes anyway? I figured since it was a game ABOUT Deus EX, you'd keep most of the DX stuff intact, for better or worse, and leave the gameplay tweaks to mods like Shifter.

[Jonas]

We're open to balance our own stuff of course. As for original DX stuff... we'll we've done a little of it, where we thought it made painfully obvious sense, such as making fire extinguishers multi-use or letting you stack PS20's, and if somebody suggests something that's equally obvious to us and simultaneously not too difficult to fix, there's a good chance we'll chug it in a patch.

But so far I haven't seen anything here that I would consider blindingly obvious. Like DDL, I'm fairly happy with the weapon balance in DX, barring a full rehaul of the combat system - and that's definitely not gonna happen.

[Blade sword]

For me the PS20 is more balanced in TNM than the shifter version IMO the damage is correct (like the DX one) the "reload time" is good and it's now a more reliable weapon and that weapon is valuable as the others
the fire extinguishers are better in TNM than the ones on vanilla DX, they are valuable to carry it, it fits also with the TNM difficulty
The shifter PS20 acts like a small anti infantry mini single shot rocket launcher, not devastating but much more powerful and effective but it keeps the fact it's a one shot weapon
The TNM AR is better than the vanilla DX since the bursts are less bullet spamming, the TNM AR shoot 3 bullets instead of 5, but the shifter AR got a more balanced grenade launcher.
the enemies aren't bad at aiming, but a good player can kill them with a single pistol bullet instead of emptying 15 bullets on their body.
Enemies with pistol are more dangerous than the ones with an assault rifle, and the sniper guy is a death killer.
TNM is harder than DX, Even DX on realistic it's a piece of cake compared to TNM at medium.
the TNM flamethrower is better than the DX version because we can't kill a person just with a flame burst without seeing them burning
Really I appreciate the work done by the team about vanilla DX weapons, and even the new weapons work quite well (I don't tried the quad launcher)
balancing the AR by adding more damage and a less spammy grenade launcher it's just a good balance though IMO
But I understand the fact the team doesn't want that ...

[Jetsetlemming]

We're open to balance our own stuff of course. As for original DX stuff... we'll we've done a little of it, where we thought it made painfully obvious sense, such as making fire extinguishers multi-use or letting you stack PS20's, and if somebody suggests something that's equally obvious to us and simultaneously not too difficult to fix, there's a good chance we'll chug it in a patch.

But so far I haven't seen anything here that I would consider blindingly obvious. Like DDL, I'm fairly happy with the weapon balance in DX, barring a full rehaul of the combat system - and that's definitely not gonna happen.

Make armor and hazmat suits work on an HP system instead of battery system? They absorb so much damage for you, they die.
There's a couple of changes Shifter did that I notices as missing and kinda missed them in TNM but now I can't remember any of them (except the flushing toilets hygiene point bonus )

[Blade sword]

I think it's right to make armor and hazmat like that and some other items like shifter (powered that can be turned off)

[Jonas]

Would make sense for ballistic armour to be hitpoint-based, but the hazmat thing would just be really annoying because it limits your vision, so you'd end up looking for ways to damage yourself enough to disable the hazmat.

Unfortunately we haven't replaced either of those items with classes of our own, so it'd be a major change to change the way they work. You'll just have to wait for the TNM-compatible version of Shifter I suppose.

[odawali]

Lollerskates in particular would be a lot more useful if you could turn them off. I understand it's part of the joke that they're dangerous because they keep going till they run out, but it's only funny the first time. Another problem is that the higher your Environmental Training skill, the less useful they become as they take forever to run out.

[DDL]

Wait, lollerskates are useful?

Man, I'm outta touch...

[Jonas]

Only by accident