Screw exams, I'm playing TNM!

[robocop]

Well, I am currently on my 3rd playthrough, and have once again accumulated a batch of minor complaints, some of which the designers may want to change for 1.0.3. Here goes:

The pepper gun is really, really bad. It's almost impossible to hit anything, you generally have to be EXACTLY six feet away to hit them properly (can't be too far OR TOO CLOSE???), and it takes a second or two after they're hit for them to react. I thought it would be indispensable on a no-takedown run, but the fire extinguisher is far better - better range, can be used at point-blank range, and they react instantly.

The phasrox menu summons the DX fire extinguisher, not the TNM version.

I sided with PDX, and intended to finish the game without ever taking down anybody, and helping neither the Goats nor the Llamas. This has run into several problems, most notably that it's impossible to save Silver Dragon without knocking out most of the guards, at least on the very hardest difficulty setting (which you can only select through the Custom menu with all the sliders set to hardest). Did I miss something, like maybe I could get security clearance somehow and order the guards to withdraw? I ended up giving myself an exception to my no-takedowns rule for the WorldCorp parking garage.

Also difficult is that, since I couldn't knock out DP to get it, I still haven't picked up a cloak aug, which is pretty much vital for a totally stealth-oriented approach.

Back in chronological order, it's annoying that Abomination can see through the cloak aug and also thermoptic camo. I may have once tried radar transparency too - if I did, then it also didn't work. I presume he has vision enhancement, and that's one thing, but does it have to always be on? It's just impossible to sneak past him, unless you're more patient than a teacher at a special needs school, and build a giant stack of crates to go around him.

When I was sneaking around WorldCorp, I decided to see if there was anything in the system of vents on level 2. I went around a corner to a new map, and suddenly found myself outside (or inside? Don't remember) the WorldCorp parking garage. WTF? There isn't a vent entrance anywhere near there! Is that where the vent is supposed to lead?

(I think the following has been mentioned before.) I got 500 skill points for uploading the virus to Black ICE, and 500 more when I was debriefed by Evil Invasion. Seems like rather a lot, and redundant.

Going around the OSC, the flying bots seemed to have a very hard time actually seeing me. All I did to hide from the bots on the ceiling of the pump room was crouch and move forwards, crawling in plain sight in the brightly-lit room.

Those giant moving blue lights that appear to scan half of a corridor each - do they do anything at all? Or are they just a novel way of lighting the place?

I only just noticed the HL1 reference in the OSC, but it's placed right next to a map change, and it's very easy to miss it. Could you maybe lengthen the corridor a bit so people notice it?

The first playthrough in which I went to the DXI server room, the thing was full of some kind of gas, but in this playthrough, it wasn't. What makes the difference? (The first time, I set off the metal detectors, but not the second time. Is that it? If so, it doesn't make much sense.)



And finally, I'd like a bit of advice. For my upcoming fourth playthrough, in which I'll finally do the WorldCorp endings, should I wait for 1.0.3?

And regardless of that, I'm looking for a challenge. I'm already intending to murder everyone in the whole game, and I was wondering, would it be fun or just difficult to do so while stoned on Melk(tm) 24/7? (I won't have that playthrough on the hardest difficulty setting, no way!)

[CommanderCain]

When I was sneaking around WorldCorp, I decided to see if there was anything in the system of vents on level 2. I went around a corner to a new map, and suddenly found myself outside (or inside? Don't remember) the WorldCorp parking garage. WTF? There isn't a vent entrance anywhere near there! Is that where the vent is supposed to lead?

Well there is a back way into WC, its behind it, there is a vent that leads from one side of the street to WC, Run around back and you will see it just go climb around and it should get you inside.

[Hassat Hunter]

The pepper gun is really, really bad.

That's the way it was in DX. But I guess they could improve it if they want it...

This has run into several problems, most notably that it's impossible to save Silver Dragon without knocking out most of the guards. I ended up giving myself an exception to my no-takedowns rule for the WorldCorp parking garage.

Yup, that's the only way. And even on normal enemy quantity, there are more guards than SD can handle on his own. And why would Security Personal allow you to pass away with SD anyway? If there needs to be an additional non-takedown way I would vote for "Your wife is sick at home, come quickly" *goes* "Hold on! I don't have a wife" *SD gone* ;P

Also difficult is that, since I couldn't knock out DP to get it, I still haven't picked up a cloak aug, which is pretty much vital for a totally stealth-oriented approach.

Not exactly a dev-fault now, is it? Maybe you should try a Despot Apartment run, see if it helps .

Back in chronological order, it's annoying that Abomination can see through the cloak aug and also thermoptic camo. I presume he has vision enhancement, and that's one thing, but does it have to always be on?

Why do you need to sneak past him anyway? Considering you do a non-Goat nor Llama run. Besides that even if you enter, the guards at the door would immediately notice you, and a Thermo Camo wont last long enough for everything (same with the Templae(TM))

When I was sneaking around WorldCorp, I decided to see if there was anything in the system of vents on level 2. I went around a corner to a new map, and suddenly found myself outside (or inside? Don't remember) the WorldCorp parking garage.

Are you sure you weren't on the Corporate Section map instead of the WC level 1 map? Since that's where it leads to...

(I think the following has been mentioned before.) I got 500 skill points for uploading the virus to Black ICE, and 500 more when I was debriefed by Evil Invasion. Seems like rather a lot, and redundant.

It really isn't that much skillpoints for a quest, and it's rather difficult, don't you agree? More so than most subquests at least. Maybe you advise some of them to be removed from here and added to the sewers?

Those giant moving blue lights that appear to scan half of a corridor each - do they do anything at all? Or are they just a novel way of lighting the place?

Good question. I usually avoided stepping in to them, thinking them to be crushing blocks or something, until my last game when I went to stand into one and was somewhat dissapointed nothing happened .

I only just noticed the HL1 reference in the OSC, but it's placed right next to a map change, and it's very easy to miss it. Could you maybe lengthen the corridor a bit so people notice it?

Which reference would that be? *Is curious*

The first playthrough in which I went to the DXI server room, the thing was full of some kind of gas, but in this playthrough, it wasn't. What makes the difference? (The first time, I set off the metal detectors, but not the second time. Is that it? If so, it doesn't make much sense.)

If you blow stuff up (think the robot) the entire room is getting filled with electricity, which you then have to turn off (Beeble sends a PM about it even without your HUD codes, unless he is dead of course). If you just stay peaceful and stealthy, that wont happen.

Or if I misunderstand and you mean the gas where you have to place the spyware device, it starts emitting ONLY when an alarm goes off (camaera, detector, doesn't matter).

And finally, I'd like a bit of advice. For my upcoming fourth playthrough, in which I'll finally do the WorldCorp endings, should I wait for 1.0.3?

I would say, no. But then again; only Jonas would know the ETA of 1.0.3.

And regardless of that, I'm looking for a challenge. I'm already intending to murder everyone in the whole game, and I was wondering, would it be fun or just difficult to do so while stoned on Melk(tm) 24/7? (I won't have that playthrough on the hardest difficulty setting, no way!)

I guess being 24/7 on Melk would be the result of a cheat? Otherwise it might be somewhat impossible to do . But yeah, killing everybody is fun, if not somewhat difficult, and sometimes you forget some people (Aemer, I look at you!). Especially fun when combined with the highest item difficulty .

[Scotch]

If you think the pepper gun is bad then you're not using it right. Here's a hint, use it at medium range and try pre-emptive sprays near doorways so that guards in pursuit will run into the cloud. From there a DTS blade to the back will finish the job nicely. This is about how I get half of my kills.

[Jonas]

The pepper gun is really, really bad.

No, you are

The phasrox menu summons the DX fire extinguisher, not the TNM version.

Thanks, fixed!

Also difficult is that, since I couldn't knock out DP to get it, I still haven't picked up a cloak aug, which is pretty much vital for a totally stealth-oriented approach.

That aug appears 5 times throughout TNM.

When I was sneaking around WorldCorp, I decided to see if there was anything in the system of vents on level 2. I went around a corner to a new map, and suddenly found myself outside (or inside? Don't remember) the WorldCorp parking garage. WTF? There isn't a vent entrance anywhere near there! Is that where the vent is supposed to lead?

Fixed!

(I think the following has been mentioned before.) I got 500 skill points for uploading the virus to Black ICE, and 500 more when I was debriefed by Evil Invasion. Seems like rather a lot, and redundant.

Fixed.

Those giant moving blue lights that appear to scan half of a corridor each - do they do anything at all? Or are they just a novel way of lighting the place?

The latter.

The first playthrough in which I went to the DXI server room, the thing was full of some kind of gas, but in this playthrough, it wasn't. What makes the difference? (The first time, I set off the metal detectors, but not the second time. Is that it? If so, it doesn't make much sense.)

Metal detectors trigger the alarm, the alarm triggers the gas. Same thing happens if you alert the camera in the server room.

You probably don't have to wait for 1.0.3. It could easily be another couple of weeks before it's released, and I personally think 1.0.2 is more than playable enough.

[Hassat Hunter]

(I think the following has been mentioned before.) I got 500 skill points for uploading the virus to Black ICE, and 500 more when I was debriefed by Evil Invasion. Seems like rather a lot, and redundant.

Fixed.

What exactly is changed there now? Getting 2x 500 points from Black ICE was fixed in 1.0.1, and not getting the 500 from EI when having a full inventory was fixed in 1.0.2. So it seems to me the reward of 1000XP was well aware and intended, no?

Things like getting 2 rewards from 1 quest (Grubs: 200XP Secondary Quest Award + 300XP The show must go on the very same instant) seems more "buggy".

[Jonas]

Nah look at the skillpoint chart in our bonus material. You're meant to get 500 points from uploading and a further 250 from Evil if you didn't get spotted by That Guy.

[Hassat Hunter]

Hmmm... really?

Okay; then maybe you should also fix that it is next to impossible not to be spotted by That Guy? Even if you sneak by him, and are sure he never ever triggers the alarm/sees you/hears you through the bloody wall near the "explosive award" it seems something tells the game he spotted you (someone else setting an alarm somewhere?)

[Skilgannon]

I only just noticed the HL1 reference in the OSC, but it's placed right next to a map change, and it's very easy to miss it. Could you maybe lengthen the corridor a bit so people notice it?

Which reference would that be? *Is curious*

Before entering the room with ShadowCode in it, creep slowly up the stairs and listen.

[Jonas]

Okay; then maybe you should also fix that it is next to impossible not to be spotted by That Guy? Even if you sneak by him, and are sure he never ever triggers the alarm/sees you/hears you through the bloody wall near the "explosive award" it seems something tells the game he spotted you (someone else setting an alarm somewhere?)

Sorry I phrased that poorly: You can't get spotted by anybody in the map. Even before you get the mission.

[EDIT] Actually scratch that, the NS (= No Stealth) flag is only set if you've received the mission when you're spotted. So if you want to make it easy on yourself, break into the level and kill everybody except That Guy before you accept the mission

[Skilgannon]

Okay; then maybe you should also fix that it is next to impossible not to be spotted by That Guy? Even if you sneak by him, and are sure he never ever triggers the alarm/sees you/hears you through the bloody wall near the "explosive award" it seems something tells the game he spotted you (someone else setting an alarm somewhere?)

Sorry I phrased that poorly: You can't get spotted by anybody in the map. Even before you get the mission.

[EDIT] Actually scratch that, the NS (= No Stealth) flag is only set if you've received the mission when you're spotted. So if you want to make it easy on yourself, break into the level and kill everybody except That Guy before you accept the mission

That's a pretty.........novel solution.

[robocop]

Commander Cain: I was not aware of that.

Concerning the pepper gun, I'll correct myself: The pepper gun is really, really bad when compared to the fire extinguisher. It's harder to use, costs money, and can only be obtained from Raving's or the final levels. The fire extinguisher, OTOH, instantly hits its target, is free, and can be obtained from most major buildings. Come to think of it, maybe the devs think this makes it too good...?

I only noticed Abomination's overly alert stance in my first playthrough (with the Goats), when I had to speed-aug my way past him because I couldn't take him out. Not a problem in itself, but when I left the temple, I got a backful of lead. I just happened to remember this problem now.

Sorry for mentioning my personal gripes with the game with my unusual play style, they shouldn't've been in the post. I'm aware of the TNM wiki, and I know the cloak aug appears many times, but my play style dictates that I have to finish the DXO missions in order to get the aug from Jonas.

And I DEFINITELY got spotted by That Guy. He hit the alarm once, and got a faceful of C02 twice!

Before entering the room with ShadowCode in it, creep slowly up the stairs and listen.

So someone else did notice the HL1 reference? I only noticed it because I paused before going up the corridor, because I was eating supper.

Jonas, you remind me of the movie mogul in Thank You for Smoking, where he takes a phone call at 3am on a week night, the main character on the other end says "When do you sleep?", and the movie mogul says "Sunday."

[Made in China]

The pepper gun is really, really bad when compared to the fire extinguisher. It's harder to use, costs money, and can only be obtained from Raving's or the final levels.

Not entirely correct. It bothered me once, but if you explore enough, you will find the pepper gun spray in various of other places.
The only one that comes to mind at the moment is on the body of a bum in Nosferatu's hideout.

Though I have to agree it sucks compared to the fire extinguisher. Maybe another firing mode could be added, blasting the pepper spray in every direction from you at once, but in exchange for a a full magazine. That should have a use when you get cornered by a bunch of enemies. But I'm possibly talking about a mod for TNM, since I can't really expect weapons to be altered at this point.

[Jonas]

Concerning the pepper gun, I'll correct myself: The pepper gun is really, really bad when compared to the fire extinguisher. It's harder to use, costs money, and can only be obtained from Raving's or the final levels. The fire extinguisher, OTOH, instantly hits its target, is free, and can be obtained from most major buildings. Come to think of it, maybe the devs think this makes it too good...?

The fire extinguisher is too hilarious to nerf

I only noticed Abomination's overly alert stance in my first playthrough (with the Goats), when I had to speed-aug my way past him because I couldn't take him out. Not a problem in itself, but when I left the temple, I got a backful of lead. I just happened to remember this problem now.

Incidentally, have you tried blasting him with some EMP? The EMP pistol will probably take too many shots for your liking to put his augs out of commission, but if you got any EMP rockets and a GEP gun or if you can get a few hits from EMP grenades in on him, that should take his augs right out, and you should subsequently be able to sneak past him. Haven't tried this, mind, so I can't guarantee it'll work, and I don't know the terms you've set for your playthrough.

Sorry for mentioning my personal gripes with the game with my unusual play style, they shouldn't've been in the post. I'm aware of the TNM wiki, and I know the cloak aug appears many times, but my play style dictates that I have to finish the DXO missions in order to get the aug from Jonas.

That's fair enough, but you can't really expect us to balance the game for the weird rules you guys set for yourselves. I mean if we did that, what would the fun be in setting those rules in the first place? The challenge is to see if you can play the game in a way that wasn't really intended, no? I'm pretty sure Deus Ex wasn't deliberately balanced to allow no-inventory playthroughs either

Jonas, you remind me of the movie mogul in Thank You for Smoking, where he takes a phone call at 3am on a week night, the main character on the other end says "When do you sleep?", and the movie mogul says "Sunday."

Hahah thanks. Yeah I stayed up until 5 am tonight, and by the time I went to bed the sun was out and the birds were singing annoyingly outside my window. Also, Thank You for Smoking is brilliant.

[Bulzeeb]

I've thought about going on a no-knockout/kill run, and I can only think of two solutions for saving SD:

1. Assuming you are still allowed to attack people, you could hurt the security guards to the point that they no longer fight back and only run away. The only problem with this is that SD seems to turn hostile on you if any opponents remain, presumably because he believes you have betrayed him. I haven't tried this specific technique however so it may not turn out this way.

2. Make the security guards hostile for one reason or another and then lure them away from SD's path. Then escape out the front door and make your through the parking entrance, and lead SD on a path that will ensure he does not encounter any WC guards. Difficult to survive, probably.