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Shifter + TNM: Status

Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 9:58 am
by Y|yukichigai
Right, so, while I haven't exactly been flooded with questions regarding the incompatibility between TNM and Shifter, I HAVE detected some interest (and frustration) regarding the problem. To make sure everyone knows what's up I'm making this topic. (Mods, a sticky if you please ^_^. EDIT: Thank you for the sticky!)

First and foremost :

Current release (v1.8.2): Shifter is MOSTLY working with The Nameless Mod.
Latest Beta (via my Savefile folder): Shifter is MOSTLY working with The Nameless Mod.
Latest source (via Google Code, project "shifterdx"): UPDATE: Shifter is MOSTLY working with The Nameless Mod. (Still testing)


I have released v1.8.2, which contrary to my earlier plans does NOT have 100% compatibility with TNM. That doesn't mean TNM + Shifter is unplayable, it just means that some things may work a bit "funky". I'm still working on it, but there are a number of real life issues which will be slowing me down (not the least of which is my impending move into an apartment). However, TNM compatibility is first on the "to-do" list, so expect a 100% compatible version before I start cranking away on v1.9.

Re: Shifter + TNM: Status

Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 11:15 am
by Illumonic
Thanks for all your hard work, hope you get everything fixed! Take your time. :)

Re: Shifter + TNM: Status

Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 3:40 pm
by BoneofMalkav
Thank you for the update,I hope it won't take as long as TNM did to release it :P but please take your time with it.

Re: Shifter + TNM: Status

Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 5:00 pm
by Trestkon

Re: Shifter + TNM: Status

Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 8:45 pm
by Y|yukichigai
Okay, so how's this for random: The aforementioned bugs I was talking about appear to have disappeared overnight. I have no idea why. I haven't recompiled Shifter at ALL, and it IS running. The closest I can figure is that it was an issue with the internal game clock, as all of the issues could be caused by the game's "Tick" event not happening quickly enough. (Hacking in particular is based on Tick in Shifter, rather just a comparison of game time in normal DX) Currently it looks like TNM and the pending release of Shifter work together, at least the broad strokes. Like I said, a full play-through will be necessary to make sure there's no lingering bugs.

I'm going to do a bit more testing before I compile and upload a Beta version that works with TNM. Just so you know, it looks like I'll have to redo some of my code to get certain features (certain parts of NPC random inventory, for example) to work in TNM, but most of these are due to simple-but-inefficient code I've been meaning to redo anyway. If you MUST have a working version this instant you can wander over to Google Code (account is "shifterdx") get the source and compile it yourself.

Re: Shifter + TNM: Status

Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 8:57 pm
by Jonas
Awesome :)

Do you need anything else from us?

Re: Shifter + TNM: Status

Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 9:55 pm
by Y|yukichigai
At the moment, no. I've got TNM fully decompiled (the .u packages anyway) so I'm able to compare any code sections that differ significantly between the Shifter classes and the TNM versions. The only thing I can think of is that if the fix is because of some files I've moved around I may ask you to add an option to the installer to put a copy of whatever file(s) necessary in the appropriate folder(s) so that Shifter will work, rather than making people do it by hand. It's not a big deal if it's not possible; most people know how to copy/paste files. :P

Still testing. Haven't gotten around to installing a fresh copy of DX yet, so I don't know for sure if there was something that fixed it or my computer was just giving me crap. :P

Re: Shifter + TNM: Status

Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 7:34 am
by Y|yukichigai
I didn't have time to test as I wanted, but meh. I've uploaded the last revision of what I was working on to Savefile. I'll upload the ZIP here too.

Tomorrow and possibly the next day I will be in Buttf%$# Nowhere for work, so internet access is not going to happen at any reasonable speed. (I'm planning to tether my cell phone if I get truly desperate) I plan on working on Shifter there, but we'll see what I can do.

Re: Shifter + TNM: Status

Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:17 am
by JC_Helios
Are you sure you uploaded the file right yuki? When I first I was choosing where to save it it wanted to save it as a Google chrome file(my internet browser). I choose to save it as "all programs" and then opened it with Winrar and everything seems alright.

Did you disable kills for skills? With enemies set as "nigh-immortal" I didn't get any skills from killing the rent-a-cops at the hotel. Alt-Fire doesn't seem to be there either. Lastily, I even got my first Shifter/TNM screenshot He grabbed the fire extinguisher out of its case and tried to 'shoot' me with it in vain, I guess NPCs aren't capable of using the FEs.

EDIT: decided to see how Shifter would fare in my current save.

Minor spoilers:
The ambush of a certain WC employee played out a bit weird. I had knocked him out prior because there seemed to be no way to save him, I think this is a shifter thing but it might be TNM. All the ambushers were reloading their weapons repeatedly at a very fast rate up until the point where I popped out and got in a fight with them. Spoilers if needed for testing: Ricemanu, Trestkon allied with WC, first ABI map, ambush only seems to happen if you have him open the gate for you.

Got a power/heart aug cann and already had power at 4 so I summoned a normal medical bot so I could overwrite an aug.

All of the "models" in ABI offices are replaced with weirdly colored/mis-sized flowerpots. There was also another report of Shifter's HDTP support causing weird things here.

EDIT2: Oh and I also remembered, with Shifter Trestkon starts out with 5000 skills, but his pistol skill is untrained.

I set a bunch of tranq mines in the ABI Labs and punched the WC guys so they'd chase after me and get knocked out. During this the Leviathan activated but didn't attack anything, just stomped around aimlessly. Activating it normally made it work as it should though. (might be TNM or Shifter related.)

Bodies also respond a bit weird. In normal TNM a body that is on fire will often burn until it is an inch from being gibbed, but with Shifter TNM the body will burn only a little bit or it will burn until it actually gibs. I have no problem with that, but what was weird was this one body had stopped burning and was just lying there for quite a while, when all of the sudden I looked at it funny and it gibbed for no apparent reason.

the teleporting blue aliens don't teleport.
Hoverbots act a bit weird, almost as if dodging was successfully implemented for them... at randonm times where I'd be trying to shoot them they'd suddenly zip up to the cieling faster than the eye can see.
I get skill points from disabling small security bots, spiderbots, and hoverbots.

EDIT4: in a new game, Phas' apartment. got glaxaxy crashes twice. I think it has something to do with The HUGE log which shifter is creating. The one for the first crash was 5.8mbs, and the second one had a log of 16.7mbs. The logs largely consists of:

ScriptLog: UpdateDynamicMusic()============> No music specified in map, loading from flags. Attempted load name is None.None


(Function DeusEx.RepairBot.Tick:001D) (or 0047 for other things) <accessed none script warning

The tick thing shows up a lot for lots of random objects, mostly computers, vending machines, etc.

Re: Shifter + TNM: Status

Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 6:24 pm
by Blade sword
Eh can I ask you something about .u files decompiling ? sorry if my question can disturb you because I tried some researches over the web and I didn't found the mean to decompile .u files that have the overall content from them, I tried to uncompile to ucc files but I didn't find all the files from the original file because the file group size is much inferior than the uncompiled group.

Re: Shifter + TNM: Status

Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 6:15 pm
by Y|yukichigai
@JC_Helios: Damn, thank you for being all thorough like that. I've had a bunch of Real Life commitments to deal with this week, so my playthrough isn't anywhere near as far along as yours. Anyway...

"Kills for skills" has always been a slight issue due to the way it's implemented, and to get it to work with TNM I'll need to move where it does skillpoint awards. That's fine with me, because it won't just fix its (kills-for-skills) incompatibility with TNM, but also with Hotel Carone (which I've been meaning to do anyway).

The fire extinguisher code may be something on the TNM end that has to be fixed in order for it to work. If I can work around it without being too horridly inefficient I will, but otherwise it'll be up to the TNM folks whether or not they want to add the code necessary to let the security guards kick your ass with halon and fire retardant foam.

No idea on the hyperfast reload issue yet, unless the map is coded such that they don't have any ammo for a bit except for alternate ammo. That would cause those issues under the current code.

TNM's medical bots are again something that gets slightly in the way of how my mod works, this time for the augmentation upgrades. Again, I'll see if it can be worked around.

Honestly this is the first I've heard of the HDTP issues. I'll have to take a look. Potted plant rockets do not sound good. It's probably just an inheritance issue, or something to do with code I've misplaced, but nothing's jumping out at me. Very odd. Not good.

Not sure what to do about Trestkon's skill level issues, but I'll look. Honestly, that mainscreen skillpoint fix was one of the fixes I understood the least.

The burning corpses issue is probably because TNM's code and my code run at the same time. I'll make sure that there's no burning without visible fire effects though, which should stop the random gibbing bodies issue. (That's my theory anyway)

No idea on the teleporting issue. I'll have to see how they do it.

I'm working on the logfile issues. I think some of it has to do with the way I fixed the "pause then hack" exploit. If you can give me a full list of all the objects that give that log entry I can figure out what's doing it.

Re: Shifter + TNM: Status

Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 2:08 am
by JC_Helios
A few more stuff:

The .45 bullets I got for being nonlethal with the noobs... According to the ammo count I only got 1 bullet. It might have been 11 but I'm pretty sure I saw "1".

The embarrassed guy in Sol's is taking a shit on a normal chair.

The subway ticket machine is a cigarette machine and it says the ticket only costs 8 credits... really is 1000 though.

The Security guard in PDX where the medbot hangs out is floating off his chair a little bit... prolly due to the HDTP sofa.

On WC level 3, the nanite barrel in the unlocked case near the medbot is screwed up graphically. Also the little security bot doesn't seem to make any firing sounds... at least it seemed like it when it was attacking the Red greasels. All I heard was the bulet casings hitting the ground.

Custom dificulty: One of the red greasels picked up a shotgun and sword I had left lying around and tried to kill me with the shotgun. I'm not sure how You'd go about implementing "unrealistic" in to TNM but it would be nice to see at least some of the stuff like this from unrealistic somehow incorporated as an option in TNM.

Re: Shifter + TNM: Status

Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 10:25 am
by Y|yukichigai
Okay, fixed some stuff...

The log file is now not astronomical in size due to "accessed none" messages or complaints about lack of music.

HDTP textures/shapes should NOT be loaded for any TNM classes. This is not a nuanced fix; anything specific to TNM, including the special versions of the standard DX weapons, will not load HDTP resources. I'm going to leave it up to the TNM crew to handle that side of things if and when they feel like it.

Enabled weapon cycling for hand-to-hand weapons in TNM. I'm not 100% sure I got everything, but it SHOULD include every melee weapon in the mod, even the uniques. Support for grenades is forthcoming.

Big one here: enabled "skills for kills" in TNM. This was just a matter of moving around some code, but it seems to work just dandy now.

On another front, I've noticed that NPC Random Inventory is working, but it's giving out Deus Ex weapons rather than TNM ones. This could be either a good or bad thing, I'm not sure. On the one hand, there's a balance issue and an inventory issue. On the other hand, my PS20 kicks TNM's PS20's ass on the damage front. :P

Re: Shifter + TNM: Status

Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 4:51 pm
by Jonas
Eh wouldn't that give you a bunch of "OLD SNIPER RIFLE"s and "OLD ASSAULT RIFLE"s etc?

Re: Shifter + TNM: Status

Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 6:25 pm
by Y|yukichigai
Well not the Sniper Rifle, but it has the possibility of giving out:

Sawed-Off Shotgun
Riot Prod
Pepper Spray
Throwing Knives

Also, NPCs can be given the standard Zyme Vial instead of Crystal Melk, but since the only difference is in description it's not that big a deal.

Given the size of that list I think I'll need to do some clever coding to work around the issue. It seems like it could be too disruptive otherwise.