A few problems...

[Jonas]

playing f03 without mods [...] just ain't fun anymore

Point taken.

[Kee715]

Playing FO3 without mods is like playing DOOM without custom .wads, it is still fun but not nearly fun enough to keep. That is why I sent it back to GameFly and rented a new game.

[Jaedar]

Bah, video game renting is for peasants . (Or maybe I'm just jealous we don't have that in Sweden (to my knowledge))

[Kee715]

Bah, video game renting is for peasants . (Or maybe I'm just jealous we don't have that in Sweden (to my knowledge))

Peasants and those intelligent enough to use it. Imagine buying a game like 50 Cent: Bulletproof (Worst PS2 game. ever) and finding that it sucks. Now you are stuck with a crap game that you had the misfortune to purchase. If you had rented it you could have seen that it sucks and then you could have sent it back, and then rented a good game.

You probably are just jealous because renting saves a ton of money, $20 a month (I think, I will need to recheck that) for unlimited rentals, fast shipping, and no late fees, compared to buying ONE game for $50-$70 and potentially hating it and being stuck with it.

[Jaedar]

potentially hating it and being stuck with it.

Bah, I use the internet to make sure I like all my games before I buy them. But yeah, I'm a bit jealous.

[Kee715]

Well actually playing it is better than getting a demo with half of a level or reading about it, potentially spoiling it for you. (Wikipedia, sometimes known as Spoilerpedia or Wikispoiler) You can even complete the whole game and send it back so it does not sit on a shelf gathering dust.

Also you can keep some of the newer games with GameFly, sure they cost about the same as the store price (Slightly less actually) but then you already have it! Then they send you a case and manual for it and send you the next game on your list. I feel really sorry for you, not having a rental service like this must suck.

[Jaedar]

Well actually playing it is better than getting a demo with half of a level or reading about it, potentially spoiling it for you.

Actually, I use this thing called reviews, that are most often spoiler free . Or I just pirate the game to try it.

[Hassat Hunter]

Back on the discussion of patches; I think most modern games have more bugs. Even if really ancient games (*kuch*Ultima*kuch*) were also crawling over with them, since then the QA has seemed to have gotten better and better. Nowadays however the tactic seems "release, patch up later", or sometimes do not patch at all, a sudden change from the old upward spiral. Most of the times reviewers would actually give bonuspoints for a bugless 1.0, instead of penalties for bugs, like in the past. A radical change.

And trust me, having to wait 3 months after a patch is done before you can use it, then find a GLARING gamestopping bug very early on doesn't make people happier (See: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords 1.0b). Yes, bugfixes can cause new bugs but you would think they would have spotted majorly serious ones like that. And like many other games these days it's up to the modmakers to make patches for said games.

Last; Quality != Sales. See: Troika. Also see: EA. Though I bet many people actually played Troika's games (every RPG-fan has at least).

Actually, lastlier (is that a word); about EA getting better, we are talking about BioWare here. BioWare got enough power (even though they ARE a sub of EA know) to say FU to EA, or LucasArts to produce their quality games. However other gamedevs may not have that leisure (Obsidian) and look what the producer can do for harm then (afore mentioned KOTOR2 again... Why LA? WHY?)

[Jaedar]

Why LA? WHY?

Because a shitty game released at christmas with good brand recognition (like starwars) will outsell a brilliant game released any other time of the year. Why? Because people don't care about the quality of video games they gift. This is one of the worst phenomena in video gaming, but the only way to stop it would be if the storekeepers actually told people not to buy the shitty games, but that ain't happening, at least not during christmas when it is busy.
Also, Obsidian are way better at what they do than Bioware

[Jonas]

Also, Obsidian are way better at what they do than Bioware

Yeah, it's just a shame that what they do is make extremely well designed but poorly constructed and largely unfinished games, whereas BioWare make extremely well designed and also well polished and complete games.

[Jaedar]

Also, Obsidian are way better at what they do than Bioware

Yeah, it's just a shame that what they do is make extremely well designed but poorly constructed and largely unfinished games, whereas BioWare make extremely well designed and also well polished and complete games.

You mean how BioWare release the same game over and over again, but just change the setting and graphics engine, whereas Obsidian change the ball quite a bit between each game. I might even go so far as to say there are more differences between the NWN2 expansions than between Mass Effect and KOTOR, but that would just be mean.

[Hassat Hunter]

Also, Obsidian are way better at what they do than Bioware

True true.

Unfortunately they can't really show it off with all their projects being cancelled . Let's hope AP brings improvement.

[Jonas]

You mean how BioWare release the same game over and over again, but just change the setting and graphics engine, whereas Obsidian change the ball quite a bit between each game. I might even go so far as to say there are more differences between the NWN2 expansions than between Mass Effect and KOTOR, but that would just be mean.

I can't even begin to explain to you how wrong you are. And this is in spite of being a greater fan of Obsidian than of BioWare. There are many similarities between KOTOR and Mass Effect, but no fewer than between System Shock and Deus Ex or between either of those and BioShock. Probably more than between most RTS games. The similarities are narrative and structural, the core gameplay and art differences are considerable.

I also find it amusing that you blame BioWare for reusing their existing formulas but you're totally fine with Obsidian basically being the BioWare Sequel Company. Oh but it's okay now that they're making Alpha Protocol as a new IP, right? How very un-BioWare of them to make an RPG with an over-the-shoulder perspective and direct control of your character's aim and movement.

Oh wait

[Jaedar]

Okey Jonas, let me qualify, Bioware consistently reuse the story(go to 3-4 places in order of your choosing and gather plot device x and then stomp the big bad.) and characters in KOTOR and Mass Effect. (Kaidan=Carth, Wrex=Mandalore(?) Mission=Liana, etc.) I admit the plot one is a BIT vague, but still, there are a lot of similarities .
And hopefully, AP will be more of an RPG than mass effect. And now, we compare NWN2 original, and MotB the only thing they share is the gameplay really, and the setting is rather similiar I guess. Hmm, writing this post has made me conclude that if Obsidian and BioWare joined forces they would be a force to be TRULY reckoned with.

[Jonas]

Okey Jonas, let me qualify, Bioware consistently reuse the story(go to 3-4 places in order of your choosing and gather plot device x and then stomp the big bad.) and characters in KOTOR and Mass Effect. (Kaidan=Carth, Wrex=Mandalore(?) Mission=Liana, etc.) I admit the plot one is a BIT vague, but still, there are a lot of similarities .

No what you mean is they reuse the plot structure, but the story is different enough. I say different enough because of course it's always about saving the world/universe, but then so is every story built on the traditional hero's tale, which means pretty much every blockbuster and every AAA game ever developed. As for characters, yes they reuse a lot of the same basic character roles, presumably so they can achieve the same interesting group dynamics and give the player the same nice broad range of choice for who to bring on each mission, but aside from Kaidan/Carth, they change the personalities of those characters enough each time to satisfy me. Liana and Mission aren't really identical in terms of personality and behaviour, though they have some things in common.

And hopefully, AP will be more of an RPG than mass effect. And now, we compare NWN2 original, and MotB the only thing they share is the gameplay really, and the setting is rather similiar I guess. Hmm, writing this post has made me conclude that if Obsidian and BioWare joined forces they would be a force to be TRULY reckoned with.

Really? I was kinda hoping AP would be more of an action game than Mass Effect.

Actually to be honest I'm just hoping AP will be more Deus Ex than Mass Effect (this can be read in two ways, and I mean it both ways).