Deus Ex: Human Renovation (fan patch/mod)

[DDL]

I always thought gren-climbing was something they only discovered significantly after they released, rather than say..something identified in QA and left in because "awesome".

Either way, I'd definitely leave it in. It's not like it's something you can exploit accidentally, and when you want to exploit it deliberately, it's a delight.

[G-Flex]

I always thought gren-climbing was something they only discovered significantly after they released, rather than say..something identified in QA and left in because "awesome".

You're probably right. The phrasing in the interview is a little ambiguous, and game developers have a tendency sometimes to view history rather... favorably like that. Hell, lots of creative types do it. Note that everything George Lucas has ever done has been what he had planned from the beginning, which seems to have required a time machine on his part considering how many times that plan seems to have changed.

Basically, I don't want to treat some ambiguous phrase as gospel here. I'm more concerned with the gameplay implications, and to me, grenade-climbing really screws up the intended flow of level design and balance of certain augmentations... if it's used.

Either way, I'd definitely leave it in. It's not like it's something you can exploit accidentally, and when you want to exploit it deliberately, it's a delight.

That's true, but if I would consider something an "exploit" then I'd prefer the temptation not be there in the first place. I'm not really a fan of having to artificially limiting yourself in order to play a game "properly".

Of course, there's a third option: Leave it in if you have cheats enabled, like the inventory overlap exploit.

... Or a fourth option: I hate the "just make it optional" approach, but I could leave an ini setting to enable it, so that players who expect the behavior can have it back if they so choose.

[DDL]

That seems...a slightly odd position to apply to this particular case, given that really: grenade climbing can be used for

A)shits and giggles
B)breaking the game

I can't think of any situation where grenade climbing is an EASIER option than "just doing the mission properly" (after all, nade climbing up the side of maggie chow's place takes AAAAGES), so the temptation to exploit it is basically zero unless you're actively up for shits and giggles, or are trying to break the game, for some reason.

Plus, you usually have to artificially limit yourself to play DX, anyway: if you simply "take the sniper rifle, shoot people from miles away", then you're going to have a much easier time than if you restrict yourself to non-lethal play.

But hey, this is just my view. I'm just in love with the whole concept of genade climbing. It's so wonderfully, wonderfully silly.

[G-Flex]

I can't think of any situation where grenade climbing is an EASIER option than "just doing the mission properly" (after all, nade climbing up the side of maggie chow's place takes AAAAGES), so the temptation to exploit it is basically zero unless you're actively up for shits and giggles, or are trying to break the game, for some reason.

Well, that's an obviously extreme example, there. I've used grenade climbing plenty of times to scale walls that you'd normally need things like microfibral muscle or the speed aug to get up, which renders those augmentations less valuable.

Plus, you usually have to artificially limit yourself to play DX, anyway: if you simply "take the sniper rifle, shoot people from miles away", then you're going to have a much easier time than if you restrict yourself to non-lethal play.

Sure, but I'm trying to mitigate that as much as I can, of course. Not that I'll succeed or anything crazy like that.

But hey, this is just my view. I'm just in love with the whole concept of genade climbing. It's so wonderfully, wonderfully silly.

See, that's the thing. I agree with you completely on that. I love it to death, but it's also cheesy and breaks the game and allows you to circumvent intended game balance and map design. Why bother with being able to jump high or lift heavy things when you can scale literally any wall using the awesome power of two grenades?

So, that's why I'm thinking of making it optional via an ini file setting. The question then is which option should be the default:

• Off, because new players won't miss it anyway, it is at least technically a problem, and old players who do miss it can still enable it and will be more likely to know how to fiddle around with settings in .ini files.
• On, because it's the expected behavior and closer to "vanilla", and people like it.

[DDL]

Well, there is the fact that runsilent is bullshit, so jumpylegs is ALWAYS the better leg aug choice...

Plus really, there's basically nothing you'd use jumpylegs or augmuscle or grenade climbing for that can't also be achieved with small crates and boxes.

But yeah, it sounds like you really do use 'nade climbing exploitatively: I'd usually wander off to find crates before even thinking about grenading my way over a wall. So I stand corrected, maybe it IS something you need to limit.

[G-Flex]

You're making good points. I've partially addressed some of them already:

• Run Silent is a little better by comparison now because the speed aug doesn't function well at all when crouched. Could still maybe use an improvement to Run Silent itself? It might be worth noting that the augmentation decreases the volume of the footstep sound, but not the radius. Perhaps I will change that at some point.
• Microfibral Muscle is better at letting you throw things farther (e.g. TNT crates), and helps with walking around with heavy weapons (at least in the unreleased version).
• Not a big deal, but pushing a stack of objects requires you to be able to push the whole stack, not just the thing on the bottom.
• The Speed aug might be a little less appealing now that Athletics is a partial alternative.

Random question: Looking at DeusExPlayer.Landed() to see if the Run Silent aug affects it... what the hell is this MakeNoise() function? Does it actually alert NPCs like an AISendEvent() call would do? Why does this exist!?

EDIT: According to a comment in Engine.Actor, MakeNoise() sends a HearNoise() event to pawns.
Here's what we've got in ScriptedPawn:

Code: Select all

function HearNoise(float Loudness, Actor NoiseMaker)
{
	// Do nothing
}

Flippin' brilliant.

For what it's worth, the aug does affect the sound made when landing, though, because it's just a basic footstep sound (albeit at high velocity).

[DDL]

MakeNoise was an unreal function they ditched in favour of AISendEvent'LoudNoise', I think. But the right hand wasn't talking to the left hand at the time, I guess.

[Zireael]

You're making good points. I've partially addressed some of them already:

• Run Silent is a little better by comparison now because the speed aug doesn't function well at all when crouched. Could still maybe use an improvement to Run Silent itself? It might be worth noting that the augmentation decreases the volume of the footstep sound, but not the radius. Perhaps I will change that at some point.

Decreasing the radius sounds like a brilliant idea.

EDIT: According to a comment in Engine.Actor, MakeNoise() sends a HearNoise() event to pawns.
Here's what we've got in ScriptedPawn:

Code: Select all

function HearNoise(float Loudness, Actor NoiseMaker)
{
	// Do nothing
}

Flippin' brilliant.

LOL at a function that does nothing.

[bjorn98009_91]

Interesting Looking good, but got a crash on the first try ^^

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4219089/huren.log

Haha, what the hell? I've never seen an error like that... if you can say anything about the exact conditions, or have a backup save, or anything like that, let me know. The more info I have, the better.

Running out of virtual memory... christ. I have no idea what's going on there. You sure it's not a problem with the renderer you're using, or your machine?

Right, sorry, forgot about this. I'll try to recreate it.

[newuser]

Hello, and thank you for your great work! Is this version (1.30) compatible with the newest HDTP version ( viewtopic.php?f=9&t=11566 )? If yes, then how do I make them both work at the same time?

[G-Flex]

You're welcome! But no, it's only compatible with the first HDTP release. If I add further compatibility, it'll be after HDTP gets out of beta, and odds are Yuki will beat me to it and add it to Shifter first, in which case I'll just swipe his code like the nice and lazy fellow I am. I'd rather not add compatibility for the beta myself, because it's a lot of work to do it just to probably change it again once the final version is out.

To use my mod with the old HDTP release, you'll want to follow the same instructions as in the Shifter readme (which I've included with my mod). Basically, all you should have to do it install HDTP, then install my mod as normal, and then follow this note from Shifter's readme:

**HDTP RELEASE #1 USERS** You need to move or copy the HDTPanim.utx file
into your C:\DeusEx\Textures folder for Shifter to work properly with HDTP.
This file is installed to C:\DeusEx\HDTP\Textures by default. You must also use
the NORMAL Deus Ex/Shifter exe file. Do NOT run HDTP.exe or Shifter will not be
running when you do!

Update: When using the OTP non-scaling UI fix, changing resolutions in-game totally breaks the root window and everything in it (basically, your HUD and menus and all that will be placed weird, as if you're still running in the old resolution and not the one you're changing to). I'm trying to work out a way to fix this; does anyone know of a way to re-initialize a window that already exists? Destroying the root window and initializing it again works, but that trashes things like your AugmentationDisplayWindow, and that's bad.

I feel like the root problem here is that the OTP version of the root window prevents its width and height from ever being changed, which is slightly problematic.

EDIT: Okay, I seem to have found a workaround. Super cool. Only problem is, I need to find a way for it to work if you're toggling between fullscreen and windowed as well, and I'm not sure how to get the game to even check to see if you are in fullscreen or windowed mode.

EDIT2: Okay, got that working as well. Changing resolution/fullscreen status in-game works fine now, including with the OTP non-scaled GUI, as long as you actually use the in-game controls and not the command console or pressing alt-enter.

[Salk]

You're welcome! But no, it's only compatible with the first HDTP release. If I add further compatibility, it'll be after HDTP gets out of beta, and odds are Yuki will beat me to it and add it to Shifter first, in which case I'll just swipe his code like the nice and lazy fellow I am.

I'd not count on it so much, not even long terms. Yuki has not been actively doing any Deus Ex modding for two full years and in my experience that usually means there is no comeback.

Of course taking HDTP out of beta might also take a long time but in that case, waiting for this to happen makes more sense.

I'll add my 2 cents here since the poll is not working. I follow this philosphy when it comes down to fixing exploits in games: if the exploit has a sensible chance of happening unintentionally then I'd really rather see it gone. Otherwise I am for keeping it.

[Baldur]

hey Gflex .. decided on expected release date of the next version?

[G-Flex]

It's hard to say with these things, because I'm never sure how long it'll take me to do something until I'm already doing it, and I keep finding more things to do. However, I only have a few more small tasks prior to the couple large ones I've been putting off, like the AI changes I've mentioned before.

Speaking of which, here's an incomplete list of what I've been working on lately, since the last time I've posted:

• Slightly improved widescreen support (FOV fixes are now more mod-friendly, cinematics show the proper FOV and no longer cut off the letterboxes/subtitles on widescreen displays).
• Slightly better scope movement (there were some rounding-to-zero problems with scoped weapon aim wandering around, so at high accuracy it would often stop entirely for a short while or move in odd patterns). The scope also stays active while traveling between maps now.
• Scope crosshairs are properly scaled with resolution (I had already fixed the binoculars).
• Carcasses don't drop their items if they've been eaten to death by an animal (e.g. karkians eating corpses in Area 51).
• If I haven't mentioned this yet: The OTP UI Fix ("non-scaled" GUI in Kentie's launcher) has a problem where the menus, HUD, and other in-game windows don't properly change size if you change resolution in-game. I've added a workaround so now you can change resolution or toggle between windowed/fullscreen via the menu without this being an issue.
• Weapon fire and projectile explosions have a larger sound radius on higher difficulties, so enemies will be more alert to them. Also, hitting things with a melee weapon makes noise that NPCs might hear (more or less noise depending on the target). Hit sound effects for melee weapons have also been fixed up a little, so that, for example, hitting a corpse sounds the same as hitting a person, not the same as hitting a wall.
• Tear gas effects blind the player more by adding an increasingly-bright and increasingly-long-lasting yellow flash effect the more it hits you. Now, getting hit with pepper spray might actually sort of matter.
• Some minor changes to NPC stats and difficulty adjustments.
• You no longer waste grenade ammo under certain situations, like throwing while moving toward a wall.
• Projectiles no longer attempt to spawn through or inside a wall if you're very close to it (e.g. shooting LAWs through windows). Now, in a situation like that, they instead spawn as close to the wall as they can while still on the shooter's side of it.
• The main menu now displays the version of the mod, its compile date/time (like it does for the main Deus Ex version), and the current difficulty setting.

I have some questions, in case anyone has input:

1. Should items on corpses that the player can't pick up be dropped to the ground, similar to Shifter? For example, if you have a pistol and a combat knife and click a corpse that also has those, you'll get the ammo from the pistol, the pistol will be destroyed, and the extra combat knife won't be picked up. Would it be better if the combat knife and empty pistol dropped to the ground instead? The benefit of this is that you'd have extra copies of weapons lying around (although you'd hardly ever need them), and to pick up a corpse the most you'd ever have to do is double-click. On the other hand, it would litter the ground with items a little bit. Any advice?
2. Does anyone know of some simple tools for properly editing PCX texture files? I've got an old copy of Paint Shop Pro here that likes to screw up the colors in a very odd way when I work with the files, so that's a no-go. There has to be something pretty simple out there, right? I just need to clean up a couple of the scope/binocular textures.

[Marcelo]

Finally! I like the idea of AI more receptive at shots and explosions. But then it only progress with the game. I think it should be complete at all levels.