If So, Why?

[ZeroPresence]

DXEditing... fond memories abound here.

I have a discussion question... does anyone still make levels/mini-mods for this game? If so, why? What is your reasoning behind it? The game is indeed VERY old, but I have an argument already myself and it is the following:

You don't have to spectral map, bump map, model, code, ADDITIVE WORLD (fail), back flip, run a marathon, nor told in order for your map to save properly you need to drive to Mexico, locate Raul and he will give you a password. You have five minutes... just to make a nice building with a few rooms and an objective.

... such as it is now'a days in editors for newer games.

I actually had FUN working on things for Unreal... and the fact that it was so limited in some ways actually made things more fun. If you think outside the box and combine certain tricks and such you can create some pretty neat effects. Also, the sense of accomplishment was a lot higher because of this!

[Neveos]

I agree, and also, I was originally hoping to use the new udk to make the game, but ultimately did not because the logistics were already in place with the DX sdk. In fact, with the dx sdk, you pretty much have everything you need within the program itself to make a game without using any outside program. Con edit seems like such a simple program, but it ultimately forms the logic behind the story, which I was surprised to find out. See, I started from scratch, and I was willing to learn how to model and code and texture, but I didn't want to have to do that just to make progress from the beginning, and the sdk allows that.

The biggest problem is that I will spend entire days trying to figre out why something doesn't work the way it is supposed to, or what is causing a bsp hole, and this makes the old tech risky development. The ued2 crack helps a lot because (as long as you don't build paths) you can rely on autosaves in case there is crashy behavior. I'm not sure how a complex UDK map will be on system resources, but I am impressed with the enbseries ability to do what it does:


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[ZeroPresence]

I really like your lighting my friend. I tend to prioritize lighting over a lot of things to get my map's point across and you have a similar idea!

It's just more fun and hands on... Ued is a good hobby, and that's what game development should feel like, a fun hobby for you to enjoy. Now, it feels like work with low pay. Bleigh!

[Mr.Snaps]

I made an account just to answer this post. I've currently just begun on a new (huge) mod for Deus Ex because I finished TNM and was very impressed with how well done that game was, and just felt like trying my hand at it. So far I'm finding the editor pretty easy to use, it all seems pretty straightforward.

The reason I'm making it is because Deus Ex is too good of a game to ever fall into the shadows. With Human Revolution coming out this year, I feel that the game will either be a huge hit (hopes not high) or it will bomb and people will wish for a more classic Deus Ex experience (again). If the latter happens I imagine DX editing will pick up more, and people will pay more attention to the original game.

Playing TNM is the most fun I have had with a game I'd never played before since I played Portal for the first time. If a 10 year old game engine can entertain better than almost everything I have seen come out in recent years, then it is something that should never be forgotten.

[Neveos]

I agree. And that is also what has me lusting for my game. DX will hopefully take a national eye, and I can capitalize on it. Hopefully I'll have most of this done before the end of the year.

To Zeropresence, yeah I totally dig the lighting aspect of the map. If you start really laying out the lighting, not only does it look good in enb, but it just makes a simple set of geometrical shapes look ultra real.

[nerdenstein]

To Zeropresence, yeah I totally dig the lighting aspect of the map. If you start really laying out the lighting, not only does it look good in enb, but it just makes a simple set of geometrical shapes look ultra real.

I totally agree. It's just a shame that it's one of the hardest things to get right/looking good, at least for me.
Deus Ex is one of the only games I've ever been able to map with, even then I'm not great at it. I'm held back by lack of creativity too. I've tried my hand at Hammer (GoldSource and Source) and that isn't too bad, but once again, I couldn't think of any ideas to do with the tools I'd learnt.

I'm considering downloading UDK at somepoint; anyone else used it? I think Jonas has. Is it worth the several hour download? And is it easy to pick up and use for a noobie such as myself (With a little help from online tutorials of course)?

[Neveos]

Yeah, its actually easier to use, but it is heavily reliant on the user having made static meshes with a modeling program. (I'm still looking for a simple free one I can use for my mod if anyone knows of one.) So, in UDK, you might add some CSG to make a floor for a road-top, but then your expected to have made a model of a segment of sidewalk. You then repeat that model over and over to form a complete sidewalk, adding more models like street lamps etc. It is much better on the system resources to do this, for some reason, and looks much better. I suppose most games are made this way, but:

There's something that gives me a detaching feeling with new games. It's like fountains and guard rails and tables... I know they are meshes, but I think their collision and interaction with the player never quite matches that of the older bsp built engines. Does anyone pick up that vibe?

[ZeroPresence]

I totally agree. It's just a shame that it's one of the hardest things to get right/looking good, at least for me.
Deus Ex is one of the only games I've ever been able to map with, even then I'm not great at it. I'm held back by lack of creativity too. I've tried my hand at Hammer (GoldSource and Source) and that isn't too bad, but once again, I couldn't think of any ideas to do with the tools I'd learnt.

I'm considering downloading UDK at somepoint; anyone else used it? I think Jonas has. Is it worth the several hour download? And is it easy to pick up and use for a noobie such as myself (With a little help from online tutorials of course)?

Here's some general lighting tips that I'm sure Neveos can attest to:

1. Don't be afraid to use VERY bright light. In TNM, let's use World Corp for example, I have some small lights that actually envelope an entire room sometimes. This is classic minimalist business architecture design and sometimes games fall into a trap of thinking they need a HUGE rectangle light to look like it could provide a good light source, but in real life... it just needs a good light bulb and some good surfaces to bounce off of. So, I would make say a 16 in diameter ceiling light and place a 160 brightness (I'm a perfectionist and still used UED units for lights, open up one of my maps and look at the numbers. ) and a radius of probably 4. Put it about 8 units away from the surface and it creates a good effect.
2. Lights (The class that you always use): I generally put one of these in a "beam" across or below where the source BRIGHT light is. I use this as a good starting point as 90% of the time this is just where you will leave your light and just modify the settings, which I generally make it either 64 or below in brightness depending on the atmosphere I'm going for, then recolor if necessary. Then, I move my 3d view back and take a general overview look at what the light looks like. Since this is the actual body of the light that lights the room sometimes I will adjust the position, or, if called for because this light is projecting onto a surface, and therefore leaves a light ring on the ground I will keep that effect and leave it properly aligned and put yet another "body" light between the BRIGHT and let's call it a LANDING light. I cut the brightness in half from the LANDING light and increase the radius while reducing the landing light to JUST the light ring on the ground.
3. Beam Lights: I looove these. This totally replaces tip 2 if deemed you want this effect, perfect for putting those small high brightness decor lights against a wall, because they make a wonderful cone effect going down or even up the wall. I generally keep the brightness of these around 96 and don't give it much play as if you go any brighter it might start turning into eye cancer. Any lower it might be missed, but if you feel a lower brightness may turn out good then by all means. Also, be careful with the radius on these lights, which can actually be thought of as the "range" of the beam. These beams can sometimes go all the way through the geometry along the length of the radius so if you have multiple rooms under your beam it may shoot right through.
4. Never light without a source. That's ugly. Some of these lights in my tips may sound like they are unsourced but technically, they do have a source... the small high brightness lights I discussed multiple times, it just requires multiple lights in different positions to create the desired effect.

Stuff.

Also, Mr. Snaps thanks for registering for this! I must say, you basically answered the entire thread right there. I agree with everything you said as the reasoning is exactly what I wanted to see! What are you working on, by the way? Feel free to bombard my PMs with an answer to my question.

[ZeroPresence]

There's something that gives me a detaching feeling with new games. It's like fountains and guard rails and tables... I know they are meshes, but I think their collision and interaction with the player never quite matches that of the older bsp built engines. Does anyone pick up that vibe?

Yep, I agree completely. Also, it pushes you into a corner, another feeling I get with games. For instance in Source, you are basically forced to make staircases either 128 units or 256 units if you want to use their rails. Everything turns cookie cutter, and that sucks for anything you want to be creative in.

Also the only things that should be classed regarding things like that are lights. I've done it in DX maps before because it saves a lot of time and resources you need to complete a map the way you want it. But I would NEVER class a freaking table, anything that's on the same plain as you and you might bump into? No dice.

[Morpheus]

I still try to edit Deus Ex, working on several maps (which never seem to get finished) but I just don't have the time anymore, which is a shame since I like editing. I like Deus Ex and still have the idea of doing my mod "Deus Ex Morpheus" about what happens directly after the original endings, but I can't do it by myself and would like some help, but doesn't seem like there is many who would want or have the time to help me.

The game was created well (for the time anyway) and its fairly easy to edit when you get started and learn a thing or two about editing. I have tried using the UDK and don't know how to do anything I could do in the UED such as import/export music, sounds, textures or classes, or even create or edit my own packages or classes and can't seem to find anything that tells you how to do that easily.

The thing with Deus Ex editing, it made you become creative to overcome obstacles since the game was limited as was the editor and you end up with things like using ogg files, HDTP and many of the things in TNM because of needing to be creative. Also if your good enough, you can look at other Unreal 1 based games such as Clive Barker's Undying, Harry Potter and the Philosophers Stone or Star trek DS9 the Fallen and get some code/textures, or ideas from those on how to create new stuff for Deus Ex that it lacks. Those games have certian differences such as static meshes or slightly different versions of the Unreal 1 editor used, but still good to get stuff from.

I have more but I'll write that later, have to go.

[miguel]

While editing Deus i'v learned that developing games sux and playing them rulez. Hey people, I need more Deus Ex mods to play with. I coul help with some 3d modeling and texturing but i haven't mastered the process yet.

[Neveos]

I still try to edit Deus Ex, working on several maps (which never seem to get finished) but I just don't have the time anymore, which is a shame since I like editing. I like Deus Ex and still have the idea of doing my mod "Deus Ex Morpheus" about what happens directly after the original endings, but I can't do it by myself and would like some help, but doesn't seem like there is many who would want or have the time to help me.

I dunno how interested you'd be in this, but I just teamed up with anthogonist to work on the invisible war revision. (And this goes to anyone else, really). Sent him the maps I have and he sent me his, because he wanted to make a mod showing the events leading up to invisible war, so I said we should team up. But basically, Morpheus is going to play a pretty big part in the story. As it is, right now, I want Morpheus to either be aluded to, or directly stated to be the AI behind the NG Resonance simulation (which might seem like blasphemy, I dunno, but I was thinking it would have been a nice touch to the original IW).

[miguel]

Why not?

What's my first mission? i have plenty of free time.

[Neveos]

Why not?

What's my first mission? i have plenty of free time.

awesome. You say you can texture right? Model somewhat? Do you have skype? Add me on skype. My name is "Neveov". We can start with a design for the Omar, and I can share with you the game so far.

[miguel]

Do you have skype? Add me on skype. My name is "Neveov".

I don't think it's gonna work cause i don't speak english at all but i will tell you when something is done.

Do you wan't the Omar to look like the original?