GMDXv9.0 Release

[Defaultplayer001]

There are no vendor NPCs that you can knock out and loot in the game. This was intentional by the devs as it presents a very dire balancing and immersion problem in itself; it encourages beating down or killing every vendor for their wares. The only way to circumvent this is to implement severe consequences for knocking out those vendors, such as a reputation/Law system, vendors not making an appearance later in the game, stuff like that, of which there are none and as modders we don't have the resources to add (No JCD voice actor).

In other words, absolutely nothing should change in this regard, but by all means go ahead.

It's not something everyone would do

It damn well is something the vast majority would.

With this realism above all focus some people hold, maybe you should make a "maximum immersion" add-on? GMDX of course enhances immersion and realism substantially in addition to everything else, but as per classic design philosophy I know when gameplay should take precedence. You could take those instances and instead set them in favor of realism, along with the vanilla instances such as vendors not having loot.

Actually, that is my exact intention! I have a VAST amount of tiny, small and not-so-small (and the totally improbable as well!) "immersive" addition ideas. Perhaps I'll even steal the name from you! I completely agree these tweaks are something that don't belong in something like GMDX, but yes, as an "optional" add on.

[Cybernetic pig]

Are there any ideas you have that you think are worthwhile for GMDX itself, that doesn't present major balancing issues like the vendor loot?

I also created /r/gmdx cause i noticed it wasn't made, I figured I'd take it and fill it with links/news as it comes.

Cool. I'll pop in from time to time to answer questions, post trivia, the occasional update, whatever.
Glad to see gradually increasing support from players over the past year. I could have achieved so much more by now if it had come sooner, but better late than never of course. Besides, I've got the whole thing nailed down now so I'm a lot more organized.

[Cybernetic pig]

This was intentional by the devs as it presents a very dire balancing and immersion problem in itself; it encourages beating down or killing every vendor for their wares.

By the way, this is an immersion and realism problem because it encourages inhuman/out of character behavior. Beating on people for their (very valuable) goods would likely be out of tune with the character you are role playing or the real life individual that you are. Furthermore as there are next to no consequences for it in DX by design, that too is an immersion/realism problem, and part of what encourages the action in the first place.

But in the end I'm far more concerned with the gameplay balancing aspect of it, yet immersion and realism is still a concern and I think adding the loot will be patching over one issue and adding two more.

[Defaultplayer001]

Are there any ideas you have that you think are worthwhile for GMDX itself, that doesn't present major balancing issues like the vendor loot?.

Oh my.

I've so many possible ideas. Just, just so much. I could go for day's. I'll have to go through my .txt files, gimme a few and I'll post some.

The balancing of more then a few I'm sure is highly questionable, but I'll throw some stuff at ya.

Cool. I'll pop in from time to time to answer questions, post trivia, the occasional update, whatever.
Glad to see gradually increasing support from players over the past year. I could have achieved so much more by now if it had come sooner, but better late than never of course. Besides, I've got the whole thing nailed down now so I'm a lot more organized.

Would you like to be a mod btw, I wouldn't expect you to do handle anything ofc, but I figure I should offer it out of principle, and also JIC something happens to my account or whoknowswhat.

Also yeaaah, I totally wish I got in on the scene sooner, always meant to but just didn't. I guess just cause I figured I wouldn't be that good.

But after getting into modding Sub Rosa (that other game) solely cause well, there was like no one else for a bit there, and i felt sorta "needed" I guess, regardless of how good my content was? It's sorta become easier to imagine myself taking up the time and learning, and then pursuing through the forums it became apparent that even some basic organizational work could help the community. Stuff like putting working links to resources all in once place.

[Defaultplayer001]

This was intentional by the devs as it presents a very dire balancing and immersion problem in itself; it encourages beating down or killing every vendor for their wares.

By the way, this is an immersion and realism problem because it encourages inhuman/out of character behavior. Beating on people for their (very valuable) goods would likely be out of tune with the character you are role playing or the real life individual that you are. Furthermore as there are next to no consequences for it in DX by design, that too is an immersion/realism problem, and part of what encourages the action in the first place.

But in the end I'm far more concerned with the gameplay balancing aspect of it, yet immersion and realism is still a concern and I think adding the loot will be patching over one issue and adding two more.

I totally agree, hence the optional nature of the patch. I think perhaps it might be possible to creatively balance them, but in the end I'm not sure.

In the end, I've come to terms with the fact I'm a fan of some more "wonky" choices like that.

[Cybernetic pig]

Would you consider posting a link to the new subreddit on the DeusEx subreddit? Get people involved. The subreddit and the mod will have a longer lifespan and greater achievements if there is a community built around it making custom content for it, such as with Brutal Doom.
More activity, more chance of finding animators, engineers and the like to truly push DX to its potential. And I'd love to see fan missions that use GMDX as a base, as well as general stuff people come up with.
Would be good for the future of DX modding in general, actually.

Would you like to be a mod btw, I wouldn't expect you to do handle anything ofc, but I figure I should offer it out of principle, and also JIC something happens to my account or whoknowswhat.

Yeah, sure. /u/CyberP1

[Defaultplayer001]

Okay, so the first idea that I've wanted for a while is just the ability punch stuff.

Just fists, not like TNM where it has its own class and gets crazy with the gloves and stuff.

This might actaully be so minor you dont want to include it.

But it's always bugged me that I can't just physically hit stuff.

Maybe even a chokehold? ( As an aside , In my "Maximum Realism" patch I'd get rid of batons instant knockout ability whatsoever, being that it has no place in reality, and ideally replace it with this chokehold)

I'd also love some sorta "kick" as well"

A slide ability would be wonderfull for the fluidity of movement as well.

Hmm. I'm typing these and realizing I may be underestimating the balance problems they pose, sliding almost certainly causes issues I bet. (speaking of things that cause issues I'm totally going to explore a "prone" option for my MR mod)

One thing Id love but i'm not sure is technically feasible in DX in ingame computer menus.

Instead of computers having their own seperate screen they would be usable within the world, pasted over the computer screen.

I'd also like to do little touches, like perhaps different pistols having different scratches via different textures? (in my MR mod id go just freaking nuts and add like a bunch of new weapons around the world)

Some might consider it pointless I know, but I love that kinda shit, it's my jam.


one thing ive always wanted is visible legs, I wonder if its possible to do it in a hackish way by hijacking the 3rd person cam mode like the immersive first person cam mod for skyrim?


That actually is probably mosty unusable ideas for you, sorry I got excited and ahead of myself lol. I'll spend some time thinking of more grounded ideas.

I did have a quick question, are you aware of any specific times JC is referred to with a male pronoun? I'm wondering how feasible adding a female avatar option is without totally breaking immersion. It seems like if I disable some convos it might *actually* be semi-decent.

I've always been fond of the Cassandra Project protaganist model and I think I'll made an optional mod to play as her in the base game on way or another.

Would you consider posting a link to the new subreddit on the DeusEx subreddit? Get people involved. The subreddit and the mod will have a longer lifespan and greater achievements if there is a community built around it making custom content for it, such as with Brutal Doom.
More activity, more chance of finding animators, engineers and the like to truly push DX to its potential. And I'd love to see fan missions that use GMDX as a base, as well as general stuff people come up with.
Would be good for the future of DX modding in general, actually.

Would you like to be a mod btw, I wouldn't expect you to do handle anything ofc, but I figure I should offer it out of principle, and also JIC something happens to my account or whoknowswhat.

Yeah, sure. /u/CyberP1

I would outright love to! I'm so excited your in sync with me on this, that's exactly what i want! IMHO GMDX is the current pinnacle of Deus Ex, and I only want to see that peak grow.

Invited you to be a mod btw. I'll work on polishing it up, maybe add a custom banner or something

[SlySpy]

There are no vendor NPCs that you can knock out and loot in the game. This was intentional by the devs as it presents a very dire balancing and immersion problem in itself; it encourages beating down or killing every vendor for their wares. The only way to circumvent this is to implement severe consequences for knocking out those vendors, such as a reputation/Law system, vendors not making an appearance later in the game, stuff like that, of which there are none and as modders we don't have the resources to add (No JCD voice actor).

In other words, absolutely nothing should change in this regard, but by all means go ahead.

I do agree that not all vendors should have their wares on them, as it would be a balancing issue for the overall game. However, it would work well for certain instances where balance would not be so out of whack (for instance, again, paying a doctor money and then taking your money back). In addition to this point...

It's not something everyone would do

It damn well is something the vast majority would.

Highly disagree. You're only saying that because most people would know about it if you announced it. If you had something like that for the lam junkie for instance, many people wouldn't even think to just knock him out and take his zyme/lam/whatever. Human Revolution had instances where you could give someone money, then take it back from their unconscious bodies, but not everyone thought to find out about that, and even at that point, not everyone would choose to just knock out the npc to get their money back.

[Defaultplayer001]

There are no vendor NPCs that you can knock out and loot in the game. This was intentional by the devs as it presents a very dire balancing and immersion problem in itself; it encourages beating down or killing every vendor for their wares. The only way to circumvent this is to implement severe consequences for knocking out those vendors, such as a reputation/Law system, vendors not making an appearance later in the game, stuff like that, of which there are none and as modders we don't have the resources to add (No JCD voice actor).

In other words, absolutely nothing should change in this regard, but by all means go ahead.

I do agree that not all vendors should have their wares on them, as it would be a balancing issue for the overall game. However, it would work well for certain instances where balance would not be so out of whack (for instance, again, paying a doctor money and then taking your money back). In addition to this point...

It's not something everyone would do

It damn well is something the vast majority would.

Highly disagree. You're only saying that because most people would know about it if you announced it. If you had something like that for the lam junkie for instance, many people wouldn't even think to just knock him out and take his zyme/lam/whatever. Human Revolution had instances where you could give someone money, then take it back from their unconscious bodies, but not everyone thought to find out about that, and even at that point, not everyone would choose to just knock out the npc to get their money back.

That's one thing I did LOVE in HR.

I abused it as much as I could.

Dear glob HR is so abusable

[Made in China]

To chime in on this, I would probably have done this if it hadn't proven futile after the first few NPCs. This also poses a problem with certain invincible NPCs - Harley Filben in Battery Park 2nd visit requires a 500 credit payment for the Mole people's passcode, and cannot be killed/knocked out.
By incentivizing players to take out NPCs they've given money/items to, you're making the limits of the game more visible. That shouldn't be the case, even if them having a dynamic inventory is more realistic. It's the difference between breaking the immersion when meeting every invincible NPC to breaking the immersion once.
Also, making only some NPCs have a dynamic inventory makes it inconsistent, which really isn't that good because it pulls the rug under the player's feet - the rules will constantly be changing with no reason for them to change.

Making that option available is good, and that's what mods for GMDX are for. But I'm with Cybernetic Pig on that one - NPCs shouldn't be carrying the items they were just given.

[Defaultplayer001]

To chime in on this, I would probably have done this if it hadn't proven futile after the first few NPCs. This also poses a problem with certain invincible NPCs - Harley Filben in Battery Park 2nd visit requires a 500 credit payment for the Mole people's passcode, and cannot be killed/knocked out.
By incentivizing players to take out NPCs they've given money/items to, you're making the limits of the game more visible. That shouldn't be the case, even if them having a dynamic inventory is more realistic. It's the difference between breaking the immersion when meeting every invincible NPC to breaking the immersion once.
Also, making only some NPCs have a dynamic inventory makes it inconsistent, which really isn't that good because it pulls the rug under the player's feet - the rules will constantly be changing with no reason for them to change.

Making that option available is good, and that's what mods for GMDX are for. But I'm with Cybernetic Pig on that one - NPCs shouldn't be carrying the items they were just given.

The Entity is very displeased with your conduct, fleshing.

I agree, it's exponential, I was actually toying with the of including a optional/hidden "narcissus" run like TNM that subverts the very limited nature of the game.

I'll just have to see what doesn't totally breakk the game as I go along, I guess.

Ooooh speaking of TNM, one darling idea I've had that I gotta mention is making a semi-functional "Oracle" AI

[SlySpy]

To chime in on this, I would probably have done this if it hadn't proven futile after the first few NPCs. This also poses a problem with certain invincible NPCs - Harley Filben in Battery Park 2nd visit requires a 500 credit payment for the Mole people's passcode, and cannot be killed/knocked out.
By incentivizing players to take out NPCs they've given money/items to, you're making the limits of the game more visible. That shouldn't be the case, even if them having a dynamic inventory is more realistic. It's the difference between breaking the immersion when meeting every invincible NPC to breaking the immersion once.
Also, making only some NPCs have a dynamic inventory makes it inconsistent, which really isn't that good because it pulls the rug under the player's feet - the rules will constantly be changing with no reason for them to change.

Making that option available is good, and that's what mods for GMDX are for. But I'm with Cybernetic Pig on that one - NPCs shouldn't be carrying the items they were just given.

I state again that I don't think every single npc should apply to this rule, especially not specifically a vendor, who's purpose is to charge you sometimes vast sums of credits for certain items. Also, it isn't necessarily incentivizing this kind of behavior if you don't know whether or not you'll be rewarded for said behavior. Again, it's easy to assume everybody would abuse these scenarios because hypothetically, you already know it would be an addition in a mod. If you slipped it in, I guarantee most people wouldn't even notice, which is fine, because that is part of what makes every DX playthrough more personal to the player.

[Kelkos]

CyberP, how about a new perk. Energy Absorbing. Like those sockets you encounter in various levels. Maybe this perk could help you in acquiring five or six additional bioelectric points instead of damaging you. If you frob with a socket with this perk enabled, this perk allows you to bargain 5 or 6 additional bioelectric points and should recharge like a repair bot after 5 or 6 seconds

[Defaultplayer001]

CyberP, how about a now perk. Energy Absorbing. Like those sockets you encounter in various levels. Maybe this perk could help you in acquiring five or six additional bioelectric points instead of damaging you. If you frob with a socket with this perk enabled, this perk allows you to bargain 5 or 6 additional bioelectric points and should recharge like a repair bot after 5 or 6 seconds

I think this is a really fun idea! It probably presents balance issues for GMDX, but I would LOVE to do a mod like that.

[Kelkos]

I think this is a really fun idea! It probably presents balance issues for GMDX, but I would LOVE to do a mod like that.

Thanks