GMDXv9.0 Release

[Defaultplayer001]

Sorry to triple post, not that I think anyone minds, but I've emailed the old contact emails for the HDTP project about the source code. I found it after a while of searching a few pages into google. http://www.offtopicproductions.com/hdtp/?page_id=5

It's actually hosted here lol, the page is all a bit broken but you can still find the contact info.

I was wondering if this was attempted or if they were just contacted on the forums?

Also I was wondering if a backup of the old OTP site was kept anywhere?

[Cybernetic pig]

I doubt anyone has the up to date source code except DDL. Don't waste your time.

Off the top of my head, Maggie Chow's first line of dialogue is "Mr. JC Denton in the flesh", and Tracer Tong through infolink says "Greetings, Mr. Denton". There's also the aussie girl in the Lucky Money club who says "He's kinda cute", before asking JC for 20 credits to get her in. Last thing I can remember is that Anna Navarre refers to JC with male pronouns when reporting his performance to Manderley, the second time you get to UNATCO HQ.

Oh yes. I was on the verge of passing out at the time of my last post, if that's any excuse.

Animating was actually something I was interested on focusing on learning to do, I've been gathering info about making animation in the game and I understand it's a challenge? There don't seem to be any guides. I don't suppose you know anyone I can ask questions about that?

https://wiki.beyondunreal.com/Legacy:Animation

Vertex animation
A method of creating motion in a 3D model mesh by directly manipulating the individual vertices of the mesh. This was the principal 3d mesh animation technique used in Unreal 1, and is still employed selectively in UT2003 for such objects as the waving-in-the-wind CTF flags and the bio-rifle goop blobs. Vertex animation of characters and some types of weapons is a laborious task, and has been largely superceded by the skeletal animation technique.
Vertex animation requires a modeling/animation program ( e.g., 3DS Max, Maya, or MilkShape) and the use of a utility (e.g., ActorX, 3ds2unr) for exporting the animated meshes to a form that can be imported into UEd. Currently vertex animation requires some Unreal Scripting to fully implement.

I've heard talk of a conversion program that changes skeletal to vertex, which would be highly desirable, but I don't know much more than that.

I do know you should be focusing on learning vertex animation independently from its implementation in Deus Ex/Unreal though. Once you've learnt it, then you'll need to learn the specific kinks for importing a mesh with animation into unreal.

If you find out how to convert skeletal to vertex then you'll never need to learn too much about vertex except the specifics Unreal needs, though.

I"m not sure what you mean by "locational interpolation"? I spent a while trying to find the exact definition of that phrase and can't find anything. Do you mean implementing iron sights vs a 3D model vs a 2d texture>

Looking at the wiki it's a mix between "Mover animation" and "Cinematic animation". Using the SetLocation() and SetRotation() functions and math to change the location and rotation the weapon is drawn each frame.

Which if I'm correct is just a custom texture and zoom value for the scope mode?

Yup. Don't bother though. It's too rough and Deus Ex deserves better.

Also why is the source code for HDTP needed? I wasn't aware HDTP actually had ANY code, I thought it was new art resources only. I've been lookin for a bit and can't find contact info for the team or it's members anywhere? Are none of them contactable?

On that note I've never actually been a fan of the look of HDTP (or new vision for that matter)
I guess now is a good time to ask you a really quick question.
It only a minor interest of mine, but I have toyed with the idea of making a patch for GMDX that changes the HDTP visual modifications back to vanilla.
Is that even possible? I always assumed so but I find myself questioning that assumption now.

Both are good, albeit flawed mods. They're both good and faithful enough to permanently replace vanilla assets, I find. To iron out their imperfections is to make their value undeniable. Stylistically they're often (but not always) on point so I don't see why they shouldn't be viewed as such.
GMDX focuses a lot in making optimal use of New Vision and HDTP and always has done.

HDTP actually has a fair bit of code. It's not a simple asset replacement mod. Things like weapon mods that only appear when the weapon mod is applied needs to be coded. A notable amount of GMDX's code revolves around new HDTP stuff too.
Reverting to vanilla is possible but I wouldn't recommend attempting it. For example, the "locational interpolation" we were just talking about would look utterly stupid if there is no viewable scope we are meant to be aiming down. It would be a lot of frustrating work finding all instances of HDTP-related code, including the stuff GMDX has done, and reverting it.

In theory, if I made proper animations for 3rd person would they all not show up in the mirror in a really satisfying way?

If you replaced the vanilla third person animations, and they happened to be better, then they'd show up in mirrors just fine.

If you wanted me to do this I'm almost certain I'm capable of making some passable textures for that.
In fact if you had a list of small texture variety changes like that i could easily get started on pumping them out, it would be a great way for me to get started I bet.

Export HDTP's two couch skins (there's two types of black couches) and start from there.

The intended colors and the texture name for couch leather:

Code: Select all

enum ESkinColor
{
	SC_Black,
	SC_Blue,
	SC_Brown,
	SC_LitGray,
	SC_Tan
};

     Skin=Texture'HDTPDecos.HDTPCouchLeatherTex1'
 

The other couch uses the same colors. the HDTP skin to export is:

Code: Select all

Texture'HDTPChairLeatherTex1'

[Defaultplayer001]

I doubt anyone has the up to date source code except DDL. Don't waste your time.

Is DDL not responding at all? No alternative contact info? It seems odd that the project was abandoned so hardcore when I've found a few threads with them talking about nearing completion.

How do we deal with the lack of source code? Is there no way to make those "proper" modifications to HDTP then?

https://wiki.beyondunreal.com/Legacy:Animation



Quote:
Vertex animation
A method of creating motion in a 3D model mesh by directly manipulating the individual vertices of the mesh. This was the principal 3d mesh animation technique used in Unreal 1, and is still employed selectively in UT2003 for such objects as the waving-in-the-wind CTF flags and the bio-rifle goop blobs. Vertex animation of characters and some types of weapons is a laborious task, and has been largely superceded by the skeletal animation technique.
Vertex animation requires a modeling/animation program ( e.g., 3DS Max, Maya, or MilkShape) and the use of a utility (e.g., ActorX, 3ds2unr) for exporting the animated meshes to a form that can be imported into UEd. Currently vertex animation requires some Unreal Scripting to fully implement.




I've heard talk of a conversion program that changes skeletal to vertex, which would be highly desirable, but I don't know much more than that.

I do know you should be focusing on learning vertex animation independently from its implementation in Deus Ex/Unreal though. Once you've learnt it, then you'll need to learn the specific kinks for importing a mesh with animation into unreal.

If you find out how to convert skeletal to vertex then you'll never need to learn too much about vertex except the specifics Unreal needs, though.

This is all wonderful info, thank you!

Yup. Don't bother though. It's too rough and Deus Ex deserves better.

I agree entirely, but I still think it could be fun as an optional add on, not in GMDX tho ofc. I have a whole bunch of wonky ideas I might make into a whole separate mod from MR, but well, one thing at a time.

It would be a lot of frustrating work finding all instances of HDTP-related code, including the stuff GMDX has done, and reverting it.

To clarify, I'm not interested in removing ALL the code. I just want it to use vanilla assets where applicable, a visual-only change.

I did figure either way it would be a massive labor, only talking hypothetically.

Export HDTP's two couch skins (there's two types of black couches) and start from there.

The intended colors and the texture name for couch leather:



Code:
enum ESkinColor
{
SC_Black,
SC_Blue,
SC_Brown,
SC_LitGray,
SC_Tan
};

Skin=Texture'HDTPDecos.HDTPCouchLeatherTex1'




The other couch uses the same colors. the HDTP skin to export is:



Code:
Texture'HDTPChairLeatherTex1'

The UT package tool is fine to use I'm assuming? Any preferred format to export to?

And uh, I feel kinda bad about being so utterly lazy, but the couch texture isn't that complex to begin with AND is black.

So it was actually super easy to simply color shift it. http://imgur.com/a/mPGI2 . This is a really quick mockup, took me a few button presses, I just thought I'd show you really quick.

There are a few problems, the white is off, it's WAY too much of a "satanic" red.

But I thought I'd show you.

Also I've put worked a bit on the GMDX sub, copied the /r/deusex stylesheet.

Can't get the upper left icon to work right tho. I'll figure it out.

*edit: huh for some reason I thought that list had a red couch on the list, well I made an even quicker brown couch mockup, http://imgur.com/a/IUcNF . Probably too dark of a brown?

edit2: while I'm here I've got to mention how irritating it is that the surface of the couch cushions warps in unrealistic ways. I've been looking through a bunch of leather couches and can't find any deformations quite like them.

Speaking of one thing I'd like to do is give each texture custom folds in the leather and such

[Cybernetic pig]

I doubt anyone has the up to date source code except DDL. Don't waste your time.

Is DDL not responding at all? No alternative contact info? It seems odd that the project was abandoned so hardcore when I've found a few threads with them talking about nearing completion.

How do we deal with the lack of source code? Is there no way to make those "proper" modifications to HDTP then?

Seems DDL and the rest of the HDTP team have disappeared of the face of the Deus Ex-centered internet. The only time I've seen any resurface was two members to lump praise upon GMDX.

I agree entirely, but I still think it could be fun as an optional add on

Yep, go nuts with the add-ons! That area should be for the community to do whatever the hell they want.

To clarify, I'm not interested in removing ALL the code. I just want it to use vanilla assets where applicable, a visual-only change.

I did figure either way it would be a massive labor, only talking hypothetically.

Yes, ideally you'd comment out all the relevant code. But that won't be easy without good programming experience. Simply changing the meshes won't be enough, as the code relating to it will remain, like aiming down scope animations when there are no visible scopes on the vanilla weapon models.

The UT package tool is fine to use I'm assuming? Any preferred format to export to?

Should be able to export it directly out of the Unreal Editor by selecting the texture and then clicking the export button. Don't change the texture format. default is .pcx

And uh, I feel kinda bad about being so utterly lazy, but the couch texture isn't that complex to begin with AND is black.

So it was actually super easy to simply color shift it. http://imgur.com/a/mPGI2 . This is a really quick mockup, took me a few button presses, I just thought I'd show you really quick.

Yeah, I know. I do simple texture creation stuff, many of my custom-made textures are in GMDX, but figured going beyond simply changing the color of the couch skin may be preferable. To make them look more unique from eachother. Can you do that? If so, also just make sperate skins with just a color change to fall back on if the unique skins don't turn out too well.

What I mean by unique is, for certain locations in New York it may be good to use a tattered skin rather than the clean one currently used. But then again on the other hand they're meant to be generic so they fit in to various locations without standing out, but nonetheless one or two special cases may be good.

Also I've put worked a bit on the GMDX sub, copied the /r/deusex stylesheet.

Looking good. No triangle symbolism or black and gold color themes though please. That stuff really gets on my tits

[Defaultplayer001]

Yeah, I know. I do simple texture creation stuff, many of my custom-made textures are in GMDX, but figured going beyond simply changing the color of the couch skin may be preferable. To make them look more unique from eachother. Can you do that? If so, also just make sperate skins with just a color change to fall back on if the unique skins don't turn out too well.

What I mean by unique is, for certain locations in New York it may be good to use a tattered skin rather than the clean one currently used. But then again on the other hand they're meant to be generic so they fit in to various locations without standing out, but nonetheless one or two special cases may be good.

I can and intend to yeaah . Maybe you didn't catch my last edit but my intention is to keep modifying it to be unique.

I LOVE the idea of a tattered couch model, I can certainly put that on the to-do list.

Yes, ideally you'd comment out all the relevant code. But that won't be easy without good programming experience. Simply changing the meshes won't be enough, as the code relating to it will remain, like aiming down scope animations when there are no visible scopes on the vanilla weapon models.

Actually , Ideally, I'd want to create new more "vanilla" visible scopes.

[Looking good. No triangle symbolism or black and gold color themes though please. That stuff really gets on my tits ]

Hahahah first thing I did was get rid of those.

[Cybernetic pig]

I can and intend to yeaah . Maybe you didn't catch my last edit but my intention is to keep modifying it to be unique.

Maybe you should just do the one tattered (black) skin which I can use in one or two instances in New York, and have all the other skins be generic color swaps but with a material change. Swap one of the skins from leather to fabric, for instance. Not uniquely-identifying marks, but just something that makes it not an obvious re-skin.

[Kelkos]

Are you implementing my idea?

CyberP, how about a new perk. Energy Absorbing. Like those sockets you encounter in various levels. Maybe this perk could help you in acquiring five or six additional bioelectric points instead of damaging you. If you frob with a socket with this perk enabled, this perk allows you to bargain 5 or 6 additional bioelectric points and should recharge like a repair bot after 5 or 6 seconds

If yes, then I have a couple of ideas for GMDX

[Cybernetic pig]

-Electricity usually drains bioenergy in Deus Ex, not restores it. Spiderbot zaps, emp fields accompanying electrical hazards etc.
-Which skill would this perk fall under?
-Are we sure we want to be having the player repeatedly frobbing each and every plug socket in the game, intentionally zapping themselves for energy?
-Perks are usually related to physical and mental feats (human-acquired skills). This is something that would realistically require technology to convert electrical damage to electrical restoration.
-Are you sure you are not stealing ideas from elsewhere again? This has been suggested a number of times before, but maybe not as you'd see that each time I declined.

There can always be few and far between exceptions to the rule/s, the occasional break from consistency...if the new feature is truly meaningful. Is this feature truly meaningful?

[Made in China]

It might be sleep deprivation, but I think Kelkos' idea (or others - it doesn't really matter who it was originally) can be salvaged while still adhering to the constraints you've rightfully posed.

Make it exclusively recharge the Environmental Training gadgets.

Not only the last level of that is already called "Tech Specialist", it'll make that perk far more useful rather than only influencing one gadget. Power plugs could be used tactically while still retaining their office usage. This opens the door for regular, non-augmented soldiers to also use those gadgets.
Of course, this will need balancing, but I think it's the only way to maintain realism while still making the power plugs a useful object.

On a different note entirely, is it possible to mirror JC's animations in relation to the YZ plane? I played some CS1.6 lately, and it has a left-handed option. I think implementing a similar option in the options menu will help with GMDX's immersive sim approach.
If it requires reanimating the entire thing from scratch it might not worth your time, though.

[Bogie]

It would work for most weapons (Glock, Stealth Pistol, Shotguns, ect), but weapons like the GEP Gun and the Law will be a bit weird since the scope is on the left side of the gun, not the right.

[Made in China]

Well, if their sight is modular I guess it can be justified. Otherwise, you can make a special case for those weapons to always fire from the right. The real question is if it's even feasible, because making vertex animations takes a long time.

[Cybernetic pig]

It's already supported:

Code: Select all

// set which hand is holding weapon
simulated function setHand( float Hand )
{
	if ( Hand == 2 )
	{
		PlayerViewOffset.Y = 0;
		FireOffset.Y = 0;
		bHideWeapon = true;
		return;
	}
	else
		bHideWeapon = false;

	if ( Hand == 0 )
	{
		PlayerViewOffset.X = Default.PlayerViewOffset.X * 0.88;
		PlayerViewOffset.Y = -0.2 * Default.PlayerViewOffset.Y;
		PlayerViewOffset.Z = Default.PlayerViewOffset.Z * 1.12;
	}
	else
	{
		PlayerViewOffset.X = Default.PlayerViewOffset.X;
		PlayerViewOffset.Y = Default.PlayerViewOffset.Y * Hand;
		PlayerViewOffset.Z = Default.PlayerViewOffset.Z;
	}
	PlayerViewOffset *= 100; //scale since network passes vector components as ints
	FireOffset.Y = Default.FireOffset.Y * Hand;
}

But that only changes the position of the weapon. Animations such as melee still attack from right to center. rotation of the weapon is still right to center, the other side of HTDP weapons is often culled, and indeed scopes are on the left side of the weapon. A lot of work to properly support lefties, not worth it.

It might be sleep deprivation, but I think Kelkos' idea (or others - it doesn't really matter who it was originally) can be salvaged while still adhering to the constraints you've rightfully posed.

Make it exclusively recharge the Environmental Training gadgets.

Ah, that's better, but unfortunately I don't want to make Thermoptic Camo and rebreathers expendable. I've already nerfed the amount suits can be recharged in version 9. Thermoptic Camo is Cloak + radar transparency in one, so of course its use should be notably more limited than the augs themselves.
Upgrading the environmental training skill already increases the amount items can be recharged, as suits last longer at master so recharging it has more value than recharging it at trained does due to multiplier scaling, for example.

[Kelkos]

Ok , how about this. Spiderbot shield.

When a Spiderbot's health is reduced , it will deploy a shield. Make use of the SphereEffect effect under the Effects tab. DrawScale 5.00000 and place it on the spiderbot. The rest is below. The shield will change colors depending on the damage that has been dealt to the spiderbot

[Bogie]

Ok , how about this. Spiderbot shield.

When a Spiderbot's health is reduced , it will deploy a shield. Make use of the SphereEffect effect under the Effects tab. DrawScale 5.00000 and place it on the spiderbot. The rest is below

This actually sounds like a really cool idea. Spiderbots (in my opinion) are a bit easy to deal with (Although GMDX 9.0 has something that makes them a tad bit harder to deal with), so maybe there can be some spiderbots that have this (UC Spiderbots, Area 51), and others won't have a shield (For balancing purposes)

[Cybernetic pig]

They're meant to be maintenance bots. Kitting them out with suspended ballistic energy shields or whatever seems impractical, especially when they're already armored. I don't think there's any urgent need for them to be harder either as everything needs to be reasonably balanced around a wide variety of possible playstyles, but if I change my mind I'll simply raise one integer (health) by 10-20 points or so exclusive to hardcore mode. Simple and sensible.

Spiderbots don't need stronger offense or defense in my opinion, as of v9.0 I think they're adequate. They just need smarter programming and more convincing presentation. all they ever do is attack you or wander, so it can be forgiven that some may forget they're meant to be maintenance bots.
The walking on the ceiling helps with that (and creates new unique gameplay ofc), but maybe I'll take it a step further.