GMDXv9.0 Release

[Shadowdancerxxl]

For the naval departure music I'd play it safe and would simply use this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qE8R8SQ ... hJUbBq_2U5

Not that Bogie's music isn't good, on the contrary. It's simply that firstly I'd try to fill the musical gaps in DX with already existing, but unused music from DX.

If one would like to expand on DX's music I'd try to make music for different scenarios in the game. For example there's an idle music and a combat one. I would've loved to have a type of music that plays if the enemy spotted you or just heard you but didn't gone into combat mode and is only checking out the situation/searching for you. Of course the music itself should fit the map's other music.
Of course to be clear, this is only me thinking out loud, not really a suggestion.

About the Area 51 alternate combat music you already know my opinion, but I'm going to say it anyway: It's fucking awesome!

[Cybernetic pig]

Departure Music: well, this would only be the truly *new* music piece. It even has the main melody in there, and it's only played for about 20 seconds as the helicopter cutscene plays out. It also replaces silence, right? It's so insignificant that even if one doesn't like it they're not going to let it impact the experience as a whole.

I think that Bogie's departure theme is good and I think most people would agree, but it would probably be best to take it to a wider audience before it is implemented.

Yeah, we'll see what tester reactions are overall. Obviously hearing it when you're immersed in-game is a little different to hearing it on youtube or whatever.

The main reasoning for it is that Deus Ex's music is pretty phenomenal and iconic as it is - so people might not object to new music, but are likely to ask why it was needed in the first place. "Innovation for the sake of having innovation" became a rather common complaint in the Deus Ex community after everyone started bashing Revision.

Well, I wouldn't call new fitting music innovation per se, just adding more variety and filling in the gaps. Filling in the musical gaps = arguably needed. More variety = not exactly needed but always awesome if executed without flaw.
But yes, there's an undeniable emotional investment in the existing soundtrack from all of us, yet it's not the idea to remove it, just add more, and on such a small scale. Nobody has complained about the v8.0 change in the NYC Sewers and Catacombs, as it's something new and fitting that's replacing currently WAY overused music, especially in the case of NYC_Streets_Music which was used on 15 or so maps.
One could even argue that the vanilla overused music on those maps was also a little out of place, as sewers and catacombs are considerably different environments than streets. Still was obviously adequate and nobody was complaining, but it could be better with new music or no music instead with a focus on audio design ambiance because sometimes, rarely, less really is more.

[Cybernetic pig]

Anyhow, I'll put the new departure music and the a51 music in and see what testers have to say, resulting in:

-Two restored vanilla tracks, both replacing music that was recycled a fair bit.
-Two entirely new short pieces replacing silence: Bogie's new track and the one currently in v8.0 at the graveyard.
-Two levels removing music entirely rather than adding as above, but with the intention to cut down on heavily recycled music and provide new fitting atmosphere. No music on a level is not breaking any major rules or consistency as the the graveyard level had no music vanilla, even in combat when ambushed.

Even with the high degree of subjectivity involved with music I think the reasoning is solid each time, and it's only giving players more without really taking anything away.

[Bogie]

I just got a neat idea for the graveyard; replacing the music when you enter Dowd's den with the unused music (since it was originally intended for the graveyard).

[Cybernetic pig]

How do we know it was intended for the graveyard? Like I said before it is a part of NavalBase_Music.umx and the naval base combat wouldn't fit the graveyard at all, so why would the composers bundle it in there? It's also a notably long piece, something like 2:30 mins:secs, which could easily extend into combat via the ambush which also wouldn't fit. I also don't think it'd fit Dowd's conversation, which is what the current music takes into consideration.

[Shadowdancerxxl]

Well for the catacombs I'd still use this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fz9OcwyP6ZY


For the graveyard ambient music I'd use this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuaFAR6BJf8

Yeah I know it's a bit horrific, but we're in a GRAVEYARD at NIGHT. It should be creepy! Also I always thought the graveyard could be like a lot bigger with a few more crypts to explore. This was like seriously a missed opportunity for the game designers. And besides a few more crypts would add to the immersion to me, since the gatekeeper says "The building says Dowd on the front. On the west side of cemetary." It's like no fucking shit, it's the only crypt in the goddamn cemetary.

[Made in China]

Had a shitty idea that might take a lot of effort to implement but might also be worth it for the sake of immersion - particles based on the date.

During December/January, rain will turn into snow. In July/August, there will be no rain. During the fall (October, say) there'll be a countdown for a lightning coupled with thunder in the background of select maps.

No direct gameplay effect, but players that are experiencing that weather outside will have an easier time when it persists ingame.

[Shadowdancerxxl]

Had a shitty idea that might take a lot of effort to implement but might also be worth it for the sake of immersion - particles based on the date.

During December/January, rain will turn into snow. In July/August, there will be no rain. During the fall (October, say) there'll be a countdown for a lightning coupled with thunder in the background of select maps.

No direct gameplay effect, but players that are experiencing that weather outside will have an easier time when it persists ingame.

Revision already did this. Well at least with the snow in december. I'd love to see some rain in the game anyway though. Like the naval shipyard would be cool with it.

[Made in China]

I think it popped into my mind recently because I've binge-watched Kim Wincen's videos and I might've seen it there. Apart from his sometimes on-point analysis of various things I tried to take notes of different things in his gameplay footage when it isn't completely pitch-black.

For example, the large crypt added in the graveyard by Revision has a very in-depth and quite accurate analysis. He fudged it up in the end because the Ancient Sword in Revision is a hidden multiple-damage weapon (at least I think it is - like the DTS in later patches of Deus Ex) and his stat analysis is wrong because of it.
He also had quite a few observations about texture locations, item placement, and thematic and real-world viability of certain constructs - which are all correct, but are exclusive to Revision.

Anyway, I did say it was a shitty idea - when you're telling a story you're immersing a player in your world, not getting immersed by the player's world. However, this blend is unique to video games and not very-well explored, aside from easter eggs - so I just thought it might be worth looking into.

[Cybernetic pig]

How does weather effects based on the real world date increase immersion? You're meant to enter JC's shoes and point in time and space. This would detract from the idea of immersion Ion Storm were trying to create, not increase it.

Edit: Oh right, just saw your second post where you acknowledge that.

As for Kim Wincen, he has a pretty good understanding of the game's design. I watched the late graveyard video too and indeed the sword (well, the Tooth sword) damage stat lying to the player is a vanilla thing. It's been fixed in GMDX since version 6 or so though, of course

I disagree with him on the notion that first person platforming is a bad thing though. Always been a fan of it, myself. Half Life, Duke Nukem 3D, Deus Ex (almost always optional here though), Dying Light...great stuff. Especially dying light, my god. It utilizes an innovative parkour system, couldn't have more praise for that in particular.

[Cybernetic pig]

Yeah I know it's a bit horrific, but we're in a GRAVEYARD at NIGHT. It should be creepy

Says who? That's a trope.

On some level I slightly agree, but Ion Storm never went out of their way to emphasize any creepiness and I don't really see why I should. Especially since it's a concept associated with the supernatural.
Just let the Graveyard stand as it is (+ further subtle realism-based beatification in v9.0, of course), any potential creepiness should come naturally rather than being emphasized by music.
Of course there is one map arguably counter to this: Vandenberg tunnels where the music is kinda creepy, but I don't make major thematic changes. Deus Ex went against the grain by NOT making the graveyard unnaturally creepy, and that's something to be respected and preserved I think.

[FastGamerr]

Deus Ex went against the grain

That, if anything, is the spirit of Deus Ex.

[Bird]

IMHO Catacombs level was creepy enough for me.

[Shadowdancerxxl]

Says who? That's a trope.

On some level I slightly agree, but Ion Storm never went out of their way to emphasize any creepiness and I don't really see why I should. Especially since it's a concept associated with the supernatural.
Just let the Graveyard stand as it is (+ further subtle realism-based beatification in v9.0, of course), any potential creepiness should come naturally rather than being emphasized by music.
Of course there is one map arguably counter to this: Vandenberg tunnels where the music is kinda creepy, but I don't make major thematic changes. Deus Ex went against the grain by NOT making the graveyard unnaturally creepy, and that's something to be respected and preserved I think.

You got a point there, although I wasn't asking for zombies and shit xd It's just I really hate levels with no music whatsoever, but yeah maybe I chose a too horrific music where the player would expect something to happen, but it won't. Although Greasels in one of the additional crypts eating bodies and shit would be sufficiently scary without going supernatural.
You got rid of the music in the catacombs, but replaced it with some creepy ambient sounds and I like that. I was aiming for a similar approach with what I posted, but I guess it was a bit too much. Maybe you can think of (or already thought of) some kind of background music/sounds that would give me that graveyard feeling?

[Made in China]

Greasels are a product of the MJ12 - and therefore indicate MJ12 presence. I don't think they belong in a secretive hideout of their rival faction's leader.

The graveyard is a weird map to balance. You'd expect a graveyard to be far more expansive than it is currently, with 1 or 2 more mausoleums and many more rows of graves. However, since you're ambushed there at the end, a bigger maps means more opportunities to be blindsided by the MJ12 troopers, while also reducing their density - I'm guessing it wasn't by coincidence that Dowd's mausoleum was backed against the edge of the map, as it balances out the combat.

If I were to create it from scratch, I'd have it stretched out to include another mausoleum before Dowd's, and have far more graves to aid in bottlenecking the MJ12 troopers in that area. The area near Dowd's would be almost as it is - pretty open and allow for combat, which can be solved by either stealth or an all-out combat, which will make the remaining troopers from the previous area trickle down to it (due to their pathing being bottlenecked). This would retain the same feeling of the original, while also making it truer to life, with the added bonus of juxtaposing Dowd's crypt with a regular, barren mausoleum.

This is a pretty radical redesign, though. I don't think it could be implemented in GMDX with Cybernetic Pig's goals in mind.