Deus Ex: Morpheus Website here

[James T]

And why is cyberpunk dead.. All I've ever heard is a bunch of elitist academics say it is (wrote an essay on subcultures that inspired Cyberpunk and this was one of my arguments). I think you'll find that there is a demand - just not a good supply of it.

When I wrote a major exam paper on Neuromancer a couple of years ago (yeah you're not the only person around here who can write, you know)

...I wouldn't describe him as any of the people around here who can write...

[Jonas]

Hey no reason to flame the guy.

[Mr_Cyberpunk]

...I wouldn't describe him as any of the people around here who can write...

The reason why I don't post in an academic tone (or even talk for that matter) is because I prefer to talk/type in a language that everyone can understand. If I were to talk/type in an academic language I'm betting 60% of the people would understand me and the other 40% are left out of the discussion. My writing maybe sloppy Informally but when I'm actually doing real legit documents I bring out the good technical stuff that I used at Uni.

Sorry to bring stats into it, I realize how useless they are but it gives you a rough idea why I post the way I do. If I actually gave a shit about what people thought I'd actually reference correctly and everything.. But that takes time and I don't care if you don't agree with my opinions. If I wanted to pull out the Rhetoric then I would - but I prefer emotional banter like all the politicians do over mind boggling stats (so I'm half of a politician - bit like Peter Garret lol All emotion and no facts)

As for writing fiction - I suck at wording it, but I can string a pretty good story together from time to time.

[Flyboy]

CP is dead?! He just posted yesterday!

To be honest, I didn't even know the cyberpunk genre was alive.

[Master_Kale]

To be honest, I didn't even know the cyberpunk genre was alive.

Yeah, Cyberpunk is dead. Now, its all about STEAMPUNK!

[chris the cynic]

To be honest, I didn't even know the cyberpunk genre was alive.

Yeah, Cyberpunk is dead. Now, its all about STEAMPUNK!

A name which Gibson disapproved of.

-

The big revelation for me here was, "Cyberpunk is merely a set of conditions - this is why it differs from science fiction. And thats why we have them." Not the set of conditions bit, the differs from science fiction bit.

My introduction to Cyberpunk was Neuromancer, a science fiction novel. Every example of it I have come across since then has been science fiction. I understand that something distinguishes Cyberpunk from the rest of science fiction, several things in fact, but that isn't the same as differing from science fiction. If it differs from science fiction it follows that it is distinct from science fiction, meaning that that which is science fiction is not Cyberpunk, meaning that Neuromancer and similar works are not Cyberpunk.

So that was new to me.

[EER]

So Cyberpunk is a subset of Science Fiction, and yet a completely seperate entity?

[Jonas]

No, just a subset of science fiction, if you ask me.

But I'm sure a lot of people disagree, and they are in their good right to

[chris the cynic]

So Cyberpunk is a subset of Science Fiction, and yet a completely seperate entity?

Based on what Mr_Cyberpunk said it logically follows that Cyberpunk is a completely seperate entity.

Based on my experiance Cyberpunk is not.

[fox]

SciFi is just the generic term, isn't it? Nobody can deny the fact CP has it's origins in classic SciFi novels.

Although I have read some essays about CP and heard very different definitions of what CP is, here are some characteristics that come to my mind when thinking about CP:

- near future scenario
- huge cities, loud and partly very grimy (as seen in Noir movies)
- many shady characters
- a lot of darkness (as seen in Noir)
- neon signs
- antiheroes as protagonists (as seen in Noir)
- body modifications for cosmetical and functional reasons
- cyberspace has evolved to a full immersion alternative reality
- no more sexual stereotyping
- A.I. evolved to the point of no return
- raising some philosophical questions about the technological progress
- raising ethical/political issues (Globalization for example)
- some cynicism (as seen in Noir)
- a lot of action with some mouth watering gadgets
- basically a crime thriller containing the ingredients above
- some kind of future rock'n roll is the hyped music of those days
- CP-books often packed with "gadgets" like e-mails, business cards, print outs or sketches beeing depicted
EDIT:
- plot often told from different points of view, ("Tarantino-style")

[Jonas]

Interesting that you should mention noir so much, as film noir is not so much a genre as a style. You could call it a subgenre of crime film, though, but sometimes even Casablanca is categorized as a film noir although it has no crime in it.

Just to be clear, I wouldn't call Casablanca a film noir. Nevertheless, it has been done.

[fox]

(..,)as film noir is not so much a genre as a style. .

Exactly. I'd call CP a style of SciFi having it's focus on a (more or less) specific era and having it's pet subjects.

Although the movie "Strange Days" takes place in 1999, I consider it almost CP, just because of it's style.

[Mr_Cyberpunk]

Its the underlying post-modernist tones that separate Cyberpunk form Sci-fi. Sci-fi tends to move away from post-modernism (as is logical to do so) whereas Cyberpunk stays in post-modernism and the result is chaotic. Its actually counter-Scifi in which the future was just slightly out of reach. It does borrow alot from Post-apocalyptic media brought on by the Punk movement though at least they didn't stoop to Punk-apocalyptic - which is why Cyberpunk is a really corny name - but it stuck and we have to use it. A better name for Cyberpunk would be Post-Modernist era Science Fiction

Also Terminator 1, 2 and to a lesser extent 3 count as Cyberpunk. (even if they are set before the present era and not after)

[chris the cynic]

Its the underlying post-modernist tones that separate Cyberpunk form Sci-fi.

...

A better name for Cyberpunk would be Post-Modernist era Science Fiction

Do you not see the contradiction here? "Post-Modernist era Science Fiction" is still Science Fiction and thus not separate from Sci-fi. Since it is not separate from Sci-fi it can not have something that separates it from Sci-fi.

It can, however, have things that separate it from most science fiction, or traditional science fiction, or any number of other subsets of science fiction.

[Mr_Cyberpunk]

The problem is that most science fictions are set during the future - cyberpunk is set in the post-modern era 1970-2080. (it could be less/more its just a rough estimate)

It sets it apart from sci-fi because its something a lot different - yet because it has sci-fi elements (being its origins) it still counts as Sci-fi. And it can go the other way too because its somewhere in the middle. (gibson's bridge series is the result of it going the other way (moving away from sci-fi but still maintaining some cyberpunk elements) Steam punk is when you go backwards in time using the same theme.(lots of gadgets ect ect))

Blade runner is quite a strange film because it uses the cyberpunk aesthetic in a science fiction environment (the film states there that humans have colonized more than just Mars. This tends to be a huge science-fiction element in a cyberpunk environment, yet it is never shown (wonder why? maybe cause it'd destroy the Cyberpunk mood)) This proves that yes they are related, that yes they can co-exist in the same world. (Blade Runner is my Fav Cyberpunk film)

The original shadowrun proves that the Fantasy elements can work with Cyberpunk and Sci-fi. What this new Shadowrun proves is that if you over do it on the Fantasy and Sci-fi you can essentially wash out a lot of the Cyberpunk elements. (which is what they have done because of the current trends)

Thats without saying that the game itself is just a bad idea given its entering an already crowded market and offers very few improvements to the FPS Multiplayer. Not to mentioned the poorly textured environments (HDTP and NV look better - and they have an ancient engine (untill DX:R anyway)).