Wherein Jonas whinges about his thesis / asks for help

[Jonas]

Hey guys.

I'm having a problem finding articles to support this one postulate I make, so I was wondering if I could crowdsource it a little. In short, I need to find some articles (like on GamaSutra, Joystiq, Eurogamer, The Escapist, whatever) about juicy interfaces, polish in videogames (particularly casual and social games), positive reinforcement, and good game feel in games like Gears of War, God of War, Arkham Asylum, etc.

If you happen to remember reading about any of these things and can dig out a link for me, I'd be incredibly grateful.

If not, don't worry about it. It was worth a shot

[bobby 55]

I dunno if this is exactly what you're after, but I remembered Eurogamer's review of Batman: AA. I think it mentions good game feel or something like it. Sorry in advance if it's not what you meant.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/batma ... lum-review

Edit: Also Jim Rossignol of RPS fame has written a few articles about the not so mainstream games (might have mentioned interfaces and the like) over the past couple of months. I'll sus them out tomorrow when I'm not so bloody tired.

[Jonas]

Thanks Bob! This one is fine, and anything else you can supply is much appreciated

[bobby 55]

I'm still looking for the articles mentioned above. Would this constitute as game polish?: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/10 ... more-76381

An article on social gaming: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/10 ... more-76226


You may have seen this already. It's a video of a talk by one of the designers of Amnesia: The Dark Descent at GDC. He mentions all sorts of game design stuff, I dunno if it's relevant, or precisely what you asked for, as a pleb I found it interesting. http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014889/Ev ... ng-Success

Anyhow, I still can't find the article(s) I've actually been looking for.

Edit: It seems my memory has played tricks on me as I can't find the article I thought I saw regarding a particular game's interface. I seem to recall it being a browser game and it was an RPS article. As a poor substitute: http://gameinterface.net/?p=21322

[AEmer]

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2010 ... ce-ico.ars

I already linked this article to you, but since this thread is a neat place to keep them together, I figured I'd add it here as well.

[Jonas]

Thanks guys! I think I should specify that I'm referring to polish in the context of game feel, meaning it's more about those little effects that make the game feel right to play. Particle effects, sound design details, special camera movement, full-screen post-processing effects, etc. The stuff that makes Gears of War so rewarding to play, because the camera moves just so when you sprint, there's a small puff of smoke when you stick to cover, all the sounds you make have that cohesive oomph like you're a huge fucking guy in clunky armour. Stuff like that.

But I'll look at the things you've posted so far and see if I can use it. Cheers!

[bobby 55]

Oh crap, sorry Jonas. Something like Thief 3 and it's lighting and stuff?

[Moonbo]

Interview w/ a Popcap founder, has some good stuff about casual game design.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3 ... php?page=1

[bobby 55]

Polish in games...take two: http://www.tweakguides.com/TDS_1.html

[Hashi]

Extra Credit guys look into things like that.

http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/episode-07-pacing

This is just episode 7 but you would need to look at the titles of their other videos and they certainly have looked into some of the stuff you want.

[AEmer]

Extra Credits have incredibly concise and well thought out arguments.

Sometimes I disagree vehemently with them, so if Jonas hasn't watched them all despite my warmest recommendations, I suspect it's because he feels as I do...but they're probably my favorite internet show atm.

They're just _very_ assertive, almost presenting their views as though extra credits is an infomercial rather than oppinion-videoes....which makes it quite galling when you feel like you know of an example that runs completely counter to something they just phrased as a fact.

It's an excellent resource though, and I think watching is mandatory if you're interested in the finer points of game design, but the more educated a gamer you are, the more boring and frustrating those videoes are likely to be. My advice is to take what you can and leave the rest.

[Jonas]

My problem with Extra Credits is when I disagree, they make me angry, and when I agree there's very little I haven't already considered before. When they do hit the sweet spot, it's by formulating something very clearly that I previously only held a vague opinion about, but that doesn't happen a lot.

Also whatever it is they do to his voice, it annoys me so much.

But thanks for your links despite that, I hadn't thought to check out Extra Credits. If they've made a video about something, that's probably good enough to make broad claims about the state of the industry as far as that thing is concerned.

[AEmer]

@Jonas
I totally get why it makes you angry, and I know you don't have a lot of patience with things that piss you off....and even less with voice alterations that piss you off =P

I believe they tune his voice to make the speech quicker, though I don't know for sure....without pitch correction, which would make him sound like a smurf.

I still think you need to get over your discomforts and bite the bullet, though. I'll give you 20 euro's if you do it and you can honestly say it wasn't worth it afterwards, to be paid in the form of steam game(s) of your choosing

[gamer0004]

My problem with Extra Credits is when I disagree, they make me angry, and when I agree there's very little I haven't already considered before. When they do hit the sweet spot, it's by formulating something very clearly that I previously only held a vague opinion about, but that doesn't happen a lot.

Also whatever it is they do to his voice, it annoys me so much.

But thanks for your links despite that, I hadn't thought to check out Extra Credits. If they've made a video about something, that's probably good enough to make broad claims about the state of the industry as far as that thing is concerned.

I'm not a game designer but I do think about game design a lot and this is true for me as well, though for me they hit the sweet spot quite often (about half the times) because, well, I'm not a game designer.

[AEmer]

I'm not a game designer but I do think about game design a lot and this is true for me as well, though for me they hit the sweet spot quite often (about half the times) because, well, I'm not a game designer.

I tend to be angered by most computer game theory material too. And some stuff doesn't anger me, but it just doesn't bring in anything new, which then angers me...because in either case, it really seems like the person should've perhaps gone over his ideas with other people and explored the merits of the arguments he's making through dialogue, before exposing me to them.

But I have holes though, big gaping holes in understanding. There's a particular facet of game design that really interests me, which is dynamic adaptation to player actions, and then a number of secondary ones...like narative, rewards, resource management and man-machine interaction...and then 10-15 subjects that I've never really pursued. Learning curves don't interest me. Pacing doesn't interest me. Player frustration only marginally interests me. Visual and aesthetic design is really low on the list of problems I care to know how to solve. Issues of race, gender and minority didn't interest me at all untill fairly recently.

Because then I come accross this:

http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/race-in-games

And it radically impacted how I felt about race in gaming...whereas I used to see it as a stumbling block usually put in to appease those especially conscious of political correctness, or as a ridiculous and transparent character flaw to attach to people, I can see it's value, and the value of racial aesthetics in general now.

Which sortof underlines it for me: Even though these people are fallible and sometimes make mistakes, they positively impact my understanding of the medium, on the whole...and that's worth it, considering how important gaming is to me.