What are you playing?

[gamer0004]

I don't quite understand why it took 7 years though, it's not a very big game. They did do very well on making it feel right, the controls are spot on. But to spend 7 years on that seems a bit excessive.

[Jonas]

Much of the time was spent getting started, basically.

[Jaedar]

Are you aware that I worked quite briefly for Playdead?

Jonas defends the developers.
But this Time.... it's personal!!!!!!!!!!!

Coming soon to a forum thread near you

[DaveW]

If I were to say, "You're a fucking dick, DDL", that would be my opinion. Others may think differently. There is nothing wrong with me expressing my opinion as a fact.

No, that is written as a statement of fact despite it being an opinion. The correct way (as in, how you speak English) to express it is thus:

"I think you're a fucking dick, DDL"

Notice the "I think"? "I think games should be X", "I think game Y sucks because it is not X" etc. - the reason you do that is to avoid looking like a dick, acting as if everyone else's opinions should align with yours on what makes a good game.

[bobby 55]

No games for a week. In a couple of hours I'm off on a road trip to a town 1100 kilometres away. My siblings and I are keeping a promise to our mum.

[Cybernetic pig]

Are you aware that I worked quite briefly for Playdead?

No. And as awesome as you are, it doesn't change my mind about it. Well, the Wikipedia page reads like a tale of struggles and refusing to sell out, and that's great...
My main problem is it had a shit load of reputable hype surrounding it, I payed 1200msp for it, and I got an 1hr 30 mins puzzle/platforming game (good puzzles/platforming though), with nothing else to it, so to speak.

I don't quite understand why it took 7 years though, it's not a very big game. They did do very well on making it feel right, the controls are spot on. But to spend 7 years on that seems a bit excessive.

This. 7 years, that's an interesting number, right?

the reason you do that is to avoid looking like a dick, acting as if everyone else's opinions should align with yours on what makes a good game.

Is that an opinion stated as a fact, DaveW?

[AEmer]

@ Limbo discussion
Honestly, I think the debate is getting sidetracked. CP already admitted that his slamming of Limbo was overly crass. Grinding further on that topic probably won't do anything for anyone.

I'd like to attack the substance of his slam rather than the style, personally:

Cybernetic Pig, when a game has won a multitude of awards, has been critically acclaimed by both the mainstream gaming press as well as the niche of hyper critics, and has sold incredibly well, how can you say that game is nothing? On the terms of the merit _others_ attribute to it, you can't really argue it isn't something at all?

So...yeah, I don't think that makes sense. Maybe you've got it all figured out and _everybody_ is clueless, but that doesn't explain why everybody would be clueless in _exactly the same way_. Even if you could describe the Limbo fans as clueless, they're pretty much the target audience of any high quality game, and clearly there's a trend here. Even if you don't personally think anything of Limbo, at the very least you ought to be able to understand and explain the method to all these peoples madness.

How do you square that with the game supposedly being nothing at all?

@ Bobby
That sounds commendable. I hope you accomplish what you set out to do

[Jaedar]

Ah yes, the "everybody loves it so it must be good" defense.




You do have a point though, the game is obviously not nothing. But I think that was just hyperbole, obviously the game is something and not just a collective delusion.

[AEmer]

No, it's not. Didn't say it must be good, QED. That would make no sense.
Said people liked it to a fault, how do you square that with being figuratively nothing. It's also a question, not a statement.
Also pretty sure he didn't mean 'nothing' to be taken literally.

What was the point of your comment again?

[Cybernetic pig]

WARNING: Post may contain douchey opinions, some even expressed as fact.

Snip

It is something, I was being a douche, and obviously didn't learn from our last discussion to be smart when I rant. But to me, it is just another game. I enjoyed the simple but fairly challenging gameplay, as quick as it was all over. But it was a VERY simple game. Why must the simple games always get the mass recognition, it pisses me off.

What did Limbo do new? It had a unique art style, great. So do many games. Art is traditionally a visual form, but video games are much more than traditional art. FACT. They are a piece of art made up of many different artists with different skill sets. Video games are an advanced art form and nobody can say otherwise. You see these articles floating about "can video games be taken seriously as art?", pfft, please, they have surpassed traditional art a long time ago.
So anyway what I am saying is I like videogames with many interesting aspects of Art, not just traditional Art, such as gameplay, music, simulation design etc.
*Not saying that Limbo should have simulation design focus.

Limbo's Gameplay: the puzzles were well designed etc, but there is nothing to set it apart from the rather large history of games with puzzles and platforming that also went far further in depth, had more replayability and content, resonated with other aspects of design well etc.

Basically I dislike it for making me feel robbed, for being simple, and for being popular. There are aspects of design I recognize as objectively good though (smooth controls for example, heck there was only movement, plus interact button. Also great polish). But meh.
Less is never more for me. For Limbo, I think less worked well for the developers, but more would have been awesome.

[bobby 55]

@ Bobby
That sounds commendable. I hope you accomplish what you set out to do

That's happening Saturday. We'll be visiting cousins in far-flung places along the way. I don't think I'll be discussing games with anyone. You might say I'll be in Limbo.

Anyhow, I'd better unplug the machine and lock the place up.

[AEmer]

@ Cybernetic Pig
Alright. Fair enough.

I can see that. The gameplay in limbo is a vehicle for delivering a concept and a theme, but it is not coupled together tightly at all. The boy is always empowered by his environment, he has few properties on his own. He is not just blank in visual terms, he is blank in gameplay terms.

Compare with Trine or the Lost Vikings, or the powerup based mechanics of Mario, Castle Vania, Metroid and Mega Man, and yeah, Limbo is pretty anemic.

Perhaps the reason it never bothered me is that I'm a dreadful platform gamer; I really am not very good, and I don't usually find the above mechanics interesting in platformers in the first place.

[AgentOrange]

After an immeasurable amount of failed attempts, I managed to do the Hydra mission in San Andreas.

That thing was so damn awkward to fly for a multitude of reasons, almost all of them having to do with the Keyboard. Or maybe I'm just too used to Saints Row 3's simple flying controls. Whatever the case, thank god that's all over.

[gamer0004]

THQ is gone. One of the few good publishers is down and parts of it have been bought by damn Ubisoft, one of the worst publishers in the world. Damn it what a shame.

[Cybernetic pig]

THQ is gone. One of the few good publishers is down and parts of it have been bought by damn Ubisoft, one of the worst publishers in the world. Damn it what a shame.

Top 5 in loving memory

1. The Punisher
2. Destroy all Humans 2
3. G-Darius
4. Red Faction (Original)

Wow, that's it. They published a lot of kids games. I don't like Saint's Row, and regretfully have not played Stalker: SoC.
I'll throw in the mediocre racing game Juiced as #5.
There was that Metro game, but I didn't really give it much of a chance that it possibly deserved. It was immersive but the gameplay was meh. It felt as If I were playing a slightly better CoD campaign; very Linear and lot's of scripted scenes, basic gameplay. though in it's credit the scripted scenes were pretty well done, unlike most of the movie wannabe's.