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[loony636]

I got the StarWars Knights of the Old Republic, realized it was an RPG, and shelved it. Turned out to be a mistake. Interviewing at Bioware, I had to admit I hadn't played their latest game, and called it Jedi of the Old Republic ("No, Knights" "Wait, KotOR, K, right, knight").

I did the same thing, and after playing it I was completely surprised at its quality. Its actually fantastic.

[Jaedar]

GRAAARGH!

The Jaedarian terror(of gargamesch) is about to rampage because of the previous post.

[loony636]

GRAAARGH!

The Jaedarian terror(of gargamesch) is about to rampage because of the previous post.

Eh? Me? What did I do? KotOR is a good game. Albeit the whole use of "amnesia" as a plot device; though it does pull it off well despite it being more cliched than Luke's paternal lineage.

[Jonas]

The nice twist with KOTOR's amnesia is that it's not used in the beginning of the game as an excuse for why you don't know anything about your avatar's life, like it is in most games.

[Jaedar]

GRAAARGH!

The Jaedarian terror(of gargamesch) is about to rampage because of the previous post.

Eh? Me? What did I do? KotOR is a good game. Albeit the whole use of "amnesia" as a plot device; though it does pull it off well despite it being more cliched than Luke's paternal lineage.

Yes, but you said fantastic. And in my world fantastic/=good

The nice twist with KOTOR's amnesia is that it's not used in the beginning of the game as an excuse for why you don't know anything about your avatar's life, like it is in most games.

Yes it is, it's just used for something else as well. It's still way better than just using it at the beginning though, that is true. And its funny that you would bring that up, because I was just about to say that the only thing KOTOR will ever be remembered for is its plot twist. So thanks for proving my point preemptively

The thing is, that amnesia as a device to get to plot rolling is used for a reason. It means that characters can explain the world in character, and that sort of stuff is important for suspension of disbelief. Why you would use this for a Star Wars game is beyond me though as everyone already knows pretty much everything there is to know about that setting. Now if you want to see a game that rightly uses amnesia, try PS:T(anyone who already has done so may have a cookie instead). It also does something extra(and boy is it awesome) later. But comparing KOTOR to Ps:T isn't really fair(despite what every BioWare fanboy will tell you), so I'll stop now.

[Jonas]

Yes it is, it's just used for something else as well. It's still way better than just using it at the beginning though, that is true. And its funny that you would bring that up, because I was just about to say that the only thing KOTOR will ever be remembered for is its plot twist. So thanks for proving my point preemptively

To be fair I was responding to somebody else bringing up the plot twist.

You're probably right though - the plot twist, and how incredibly evil you can be to your party at the end.

But comparing KOTOR to Ps:T isn't really fair(despite what every BioWare fanboy will tell you), so I'll stop now.

Well, I'm a BioWare fanboy, and I would say it's fair to compare KOTOR to PS:T. It's just that KOTOR doesn't come out of that comparison looking very good. But then I am of course an even greater Avellone/Black Isle/Obsidian fanboy.

[Jaedar]

You're probably right though - the plot twist, and how incredibly evil you can be to your party at the end.

The fun thing is, Jade Empire is probably better in both respects. I've probably said this elsewhere, but in KOTOR the plot twist is hidden, and you cannot see it(partly because of the "no betrayals" rule, but that's a rant for another time). In JE, it is clear as day, but you won't see it because gaming has trained you not to, it is sort of like the one in Bioshock in that regard.

I just prefer that sort of reveal, one that is completely obvious, but you don't see it because you've been conditioned not to. And about the evil part: mind controlling them and then sacrificing them to steal the power of a god > abandoning them on a tropical island

JE is usually not brought up though, and I can never really see why. It's pretty much KOTOR in ancient china.

[Jonas]

abandoning them on a tropical island

Um, no. Not abandoning them. Doing this:

Getting back to the Ebon Hawk with Bastila, my party was not quite so keen on our new attitude. Carth, spotting Jolee missing, asked what had happened. I boasted of our killing him, and Carth freaked out. The question of everyone's loyalty was raised again, with Carth determined he would not fight with us. Of course the droids were on our side - they had no choice, and HK was way ahead of us anyway. Ordo was even more delighted to stick around, proud as ever to be with a great military strategist. But Mission was not so keen. Destroyed by my conversion, she swore allegiance with Carth, and called Zaalbar to join her.

Zaalbar explained that he could not, bound by his life debt to me. She was devastated, her fourteen years not preparing herself for such terrible betrayal. When it became clear I wasn't going to let Mission go without a fight, Carth ran for it, calling Mission to run with him. I intervened. She told me I'd have to kill her, but I had a better idea. I'd get Zaalbar to do it.

Of course Zaalbar said this was too far, that he would stand by me until the end, but he would not kill Mission. Of course, I'm a Jedi, and I have that Force Persuade power on my side - when I want people to do something, they tend to find themselves wanting to do it too. While Zaalbar certainly didn't want to, he couldn't not. Apologising to a terrified, desperate, begging fourteen-year-old child, he raised his weapon and killed her on that beautiful beach.

[gamer0004]

You're probably right though - the plot twist, and how incredibly evil you can be to your party at the end.

The fun thing is, Jade Empire is probably better in both respects. I've probably said this elsewhere, but in KOTOR the plot twist is hidden, and you cannot see it(partly because of the "no betrayals" rule, but that's a rant for another time). In JE, it is clear as day, but you won't see it because gaming has trained you not to, it is sort of like the one in Bioshock in that regard.

I just prefer that sort of reveal, one that is completely obvious, but you don't see it because you've been conditioned not to. And about the evil part: mind controlling them and then sacrificing them to steal the power of a god > abandoning them on a tropical island

JE is usually not brought up though, and I can never really see why. It's pretty much KOTOR in ancient china.

I've played KOTOR for a short while and J:E is pretty different from KOTOR (at least in terms of gameplay mechanics).

[Jaedar]

I've played KOTOR for a short while and J:E is pretty different from KOTOR (at least in terms of gameplay mechanics).

True, the gameplay is different, but who plays bio games for gameplay amirite? (That worked so much better before ME2 though)
And I think that JE gameplay is more enjoyable, KOTOR just felt like a complete 'spam flurry attack' to me.

Um, no. Not abandoning them. Doing this:

I completely forgot you could do that. Still, it can't even begin to compare with what you can do in PS:T, but it may very well be worse(better?) than JE.

[loony636]

The nice twist with KOTOR's amnesia is that it's not used in the beginning of the game as an excuse for why you don't know anything about your avatar's life, like it is in most games.

Wait, were you being sarcastic? Because I seem to remember your character being introduced properly, but just as completely insignificant. You were fighting alongside Carth and Bastila, and your own backstory wasn't really explained because, well, nobody cared about you. Then you became a Jedi and went through the entire Galaxy, saving it from the Sith...

...only to find out that you're they're leader.

Then, as you said, you get to go fucking nuts.

Why you would use this for a Star Wars game is beyond me though as everyone already knows pretty much everything there is to know about that setting.

Because the whole point of KotOR was that you didn't know the setting. I mean, there were Jedis, Siths and the Force, but that was just about where the similarities ended. Pretty much everything was different, and you had to be taught a lot of the setting from the ground up. Of course, the amnesia wasn't primarily used in this regard to explain everything that was going on; that was done fairly seamlessly as the game went on, but it was an awesome plot twist nonetheless.

The only real annoying thing was when they forced you to have DNMs with your crewmates. The whole "Carth looks like he has something to say" dialogue prompt always turned me off talking to them. I like KotOR II when the game didn't force you to find out about them, but substantially rewarded you if you did (i.e. being able to make them Jedi).

[Jaedar]

Because the whole point of KotOR was that you didn't know the setting.

In that case it failed, miserably.

Pretty much everything was different

Nothing was different: You're the good jedi guys, and you're looking for a way to defeat the evil sith empire. I'm going to have to ask you to point out what was different. Not necessarily everything, but the things you consider big.

[gamer0004]

I've played KOTOR for a short while and J:E is pretty different from KOTOR (at least in terms of gameplay mechanics).

True, the gameplay is different, but who plays bio games for gameplay amirite? (That worked so much better before ME2 though)
And I think that JE gameplay is more enjoyable, KOTOR just felt like a complete 'spam flurry attack' to me.

Well I liked J:E because of its fantasy setting (i.e. exploration) and its combat. I didn't really like the dialogues and its RPG systems.

[Jaedar]

I didn't really like the dialogues and its RPG systems.

Meh, it's a BIO game, if you're playing it for the RPG system you're doing it wrong(I hear BG did it pretty well, but that's so long ago....). And the dialogue is the same as any other bio game. And the characters are identical to the other two members of the unholy trinity(That's JE, KOTOR and ME).

[justanotherfan]

I still haven't played it past the character creation screens. I'm still avoiding RPGs. I talked to someone else doing the same thing yesterday, who was telling me everything about Final Fantasy 7.

I've been playing Jedi Academy a bit. It's incredibly annoying when it tries to be a platformer. The interface is predictably bad, but not as bad as the usual console port. AI is a bit goofy, and the lightsaber battles are more clunky than I remember. Lots of filler levels. Still, you get farcepowders and lightsamers. Getting the Star Wars Movie Duels mod, which should cut out the dull levels. ISTR Hearing about Star Wars Force Unleashed, about it being far more dynamic and interesting, and not getting it (maybe the PC version came out late? I remember a bad review), but I've just rediscovered that game after looking at the E3 list...I'll try the game, and find out if I'm waiting for Force Unleashed II or DX3.