Sorry for posting this here, but if you would...

[bobby 55]

There's some password managing programs that are encrypted that do the "remembering" for you. My brother in-law has put one on this PC, and although he assures me "it's safe as a bank", I'm too paranoid to use it.

[Neveos]

Oh god. I don't know where to begin.

lol, alright you'll have to forgive me because this is somewhat of a specialization for me, so I know the rebuttals here (and consider this a gift of knowledge for how much help you've given me in this mod):

The problem with conspiracy theories is that "the secret truth behind X" relies on "secret organisation Y being behind it", which then requires "mystery funding source Z" and so on, and you very quickly get into a rabbit-hole situation. Before you know it, you're arguing that "clearly the moon landings were faked, because Obama is a muslim", and it all just looks fucking ridiculous.

See, most people assume there is always some level of secrecy involved, but they simply do not realize they are doing so. A good example is professor Noam Chomsky who does not consider himself a conspiracy theorist, but rather sees everything as a result of (something like) primal urges for popularity and power. He sees things as predictably phenomenal, rather than conspiratorial.

Well, if there is, at least, that explanation being provided for world events, then that is his conspiracy theory. To be a "conspiracy theorist", on the other hand, is to simply think the criminal behavior is a bit more (in fact, for some, quite a bit more) organized than what we would be capable of speculating given our depictions derived from official media sources. I.e. There isn't Bush sitting on his couch constantly concocting methods of killing Saddam Hussein. In fact, THAT would be the more extravagant story, and more generous to his intellect to think so. At the very least most people would assume he had partners. Well, it becomes a slippery slope. Who initiated it? How many people would be interested in it? What is the story we'd pitch to the public? How do we implement it? What if it fails? Suddenly, you have the development of, what is considered to be, a conspiracy theory.

The nice thing about reality is it doesn't have to make cohesive sense. Life is stranger than fiction, since in fiction every X needs a Y, or the reader goes "huh?", whereas in real life, X can just happen, coz..shit happens. I suspect this human need for causal chains (everything happens for a reason) underpins a lot of conspiracy theories, much as it does most (all?) religions.

Well human behavior is rarely truly random. In fact, it takes things like seizures to base human behavior on something other than psychological motivation. Conspiracy theory, as I said earlier, is really just that: What is the psychological motivation? What is the wiring behind these actions on the part of humans? You see, we have a conspiracy theory about 9/11 given to us by people in positions of power. It is simply because of their positions of power that we have come to accept their conspiracy theory, rather than what the evidence suggests.

As it is, you're arguing that the US spend millions organising an insanely impractical fake assassination in a temperamental nuke-possessing nation (a fake assassination that makes that same nation look like a bunch of fuckwits, no less)

As I said, the conspiracy would likely be international in scope, and would have compromised multiple national authorities, including this one... this is especially the case considering it is nuclear capable, and in proximity to Israel. Israel is sort of like a nerve for the powers that be. It, quite literally, is on a whole new level as far as synthesizing a nation goes.

when a vastly easier and more practical location was literally next door. And they did this 'just to get some witnesses'. And they planned the whole thing to coincide with a royal wedding?

Seriously?

Well it also has to do with the pressure being exerted on the situation by Donald Trump, who was making a huge media scandal about it. It was becoming incredibly fishy why Obama would not produce the document.

Also, sources to support Osama being dead and not behind 9/11: unverified interview transcripts (i.e. just text) from conspiracy theory websites.

It was a letter received from the Taliban some time shortly after 9/11. This fact is confirmed. Of course the officials doubt it came from OBL, because they need him to stop denying his involvement.

Sources to the contrary: a bajillion actual videos. O wait, the CIA faked them? All of them? Even the ones from Al Jazera?

Remember: international. CIA would just be one part, but not everyone in the CIA knows everything. It's called compartmentalization. You simply do what your told, and as long as you aren't doing to many things, you never add up what you are doing as a collective. In fact some CIA agents came out claiming the Osama in this "confession video" is fake as a result of the person having western mannerisms, etc., but of course, other CIA agents quickly herded them back in by saying, "Oh he just has doubles which he uses for protection." Remember, they pulled the first video, the denial video off the news, since they were concerned it had "secret messages for Al Qaeda." Once again, how convenient? It's like a pathological liar. Strategically, and not fairly, doing their job. As you can see, the confession tape is "found" at the same time Pakistani and Afghanistani papers report his death from natural causes.

The sheer amount of insane planning and secrecy required to arrange things like this rapidly becomes prohibitively expensive. You'd end up spending 90% of your time and money ensuring any and all leaks were covered up, leaving barely enough time for any actual evil machinations.

That is exactly why we're in a dark age as far as economic and technological growth goes. I mean, sure, we can skype through our mobile phones, and enjoy cgi movies and games, but guess what? That's about it. It's 2012. Most people assumed we would be taking vacation on the moon by now, back in the 50s, because they witnessed enormous booms in technology in their lifetime. People don't realize this, but when JFK was assassinated, it is referred to as the CIA "coup". Everyone involved in that assassination, has subsequently had to manage the country since that assassination. Sort of like the 9/11 debacle. Anyone who is a 9/11 truther knew not to trust Obama the moment he took office since he wasn't immediately hit with the desire to call out Bush's involvement. It also caused conspiracy theory to explode in the population, because now it was no longer just "Bush and Cheney concocting things on his couch.", but wtf, and how deep does this rabbit hole go?

It's unsustainable unless you somehow have infinite time and money. Conspiracy theories rely on shadowy organisations with (as noted) unlimited resources and (even more importantly) a mysterious yet COHESIVE agenda.

Centralized banking -is- infinite money and resources. It is the literal manifestation of human control in the form of paper that you can only print, called fiat money. Fiat money isn't so much a problem (useful during wartime, for instance) when it is controlled by the government... by congress. But the Federal Reserve isn't Federal at all. It is a private bank owned by a shadowy cabal of, what have been called, "the bankers". Watch that "flashy video" I mentioned, in an earlier post, to see what a dollar really is in the US (which is [was] traded as the standard global currency). That's why slogans like "kill the banks" "end the fed" are going around in America right now, because of how absurd this privatized fiat currency system is.

Have you ever even seen TWO humans develop that level of cohesive agenda? Seriously, as a species we're just not that organised. Even ONE person is quite happily capable of holding two opinions. Get two or more together and you're lucky if you get anything done.

Not in corporations. In fact, just try working under a group of managers. There is a hierarchy, and they are all looking out for themselves. Their motivations are entirely kept in secret, and they meet together and make decisions in their best interest regardless of whether it is in yours. That's how people get fired, basically. They, themselves, are under another person, and they under them. And they make decisions about you which appeal to the people above them. There are no checks and balances within a corporation. It is a complete tyranny. It is very common, and not outside of our comprehension.

At some point, really, you just have to step back and employ occam's razor: what is really the most likely explanation? The one that sounds random and chaotic yet requires absolutely no magic secret super societies, or the one that links all these random and chaotic events into an overarching plot orchestrated by a totally unverified and unverifiable super secret society?

Occam's razor actually supports most conspiracy theories against official conspiracy theories, and unfortunately, good conspiracy theories are so clouded by strawmen (like Lizzard Men, aliens, Illuinati, etc.) that it only appears Occam's razor supports the mainstream version.

Reading your posts, it seems like your main justification for not believing the whole wikileaks story is that the only things they're uncovered are mundane, shitty tales of human greed and stupidity, rather than those super secret societies and their machinations that you just know must be there. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy:

"He's a hacker, he'll find the truth about [9/11]/[Obama's birth certificate]/[Area 51]/[Armenian Genocide]/[The Holocaust] (delete as applicable)"

**he doesn't find anything**

"OH MY GOD HE MUST BE ONE OF THEM!!"

lol. Well, yes, actually. But, no, in the sense that I totally expect him to find what he is finding. For instance, I don't think the conspirators all have the same objective in mind. I.e. You have "liberal agenda" types who believe in interracial unions, freedom of sexual expression, and socialism for the poor (you know, it appears believably good, and worth fighting/conspiring for), "NeoCons" who believe in spreading democracy and free trade and "civilization", "resource hogs" which are just looking to continue dominating their respective industries in energy or food production, "White supremacists" who actually believe in either dominating or destroying non-western cultures, "Zionists" which are putting all of their resources into a prophetic Jewish state, "Bankers" which are trying to maintain the illusion of Keynesian economics, "industrial military complex" which is constantly attempting to justify war in order to wage war, "new world order enthusiasts" which are pushing for a global government in order to do anything from monitor to enslave the entire population, and most disturbingly "black market complexes"/"Satanists" which are both a cause and a tool in conspiracy theory as they perpetuate a complex of getting involved in black market activity (pedophilia/snuff flim/"white-slavery"/drugs/prostitution/torture/cannibalism) and they become trapped by black mail and threat by their incredibly pervasive colleagues.

Who -really- runs the show? Honestly, they are all very intertwined, and it is only when you reach the shot callers at the tops of each that you can find anyone who knows everything, as everyone at the bottom thinks they are simply a part of their respective group. For most conspiracy theorists, it points to the Rothschild family (openly criminal banking intellectual zionists who funded Hitler and created the state of Israel, with sights set on global unification), which is simply to say it points to the most powerful family in the world since their emergence in financial domination in the mid 1700s. Coincidentally, perhaps not so much, that's when America was founded and drafted the constitution which would impede their efforts in exerting resource domination. America would become a prime target ever since.

So can Assange uncover things which don't point to the top? Sure there's plenty of it. But uncovering neo-con, liberal agenda, or resource controlling activities is very uninteresting. It is conspiracy theory, but it isn't adding things up. In fact, it is just making conspiracy theory look like it would only amount to such shallow perspectives.

“Only the small secrets need to be protected. The big ones are kept secret by public incredulity.” Marshall McLuhan

....when alternatively, he might not find these things because they are not there. Because they're insane.

Finally (because...really: I don't think I can convey quite how painfully, depressingly, tediously wrong I find conspiracy theories to be, no matter how much I type), I might offer a few scant words of advice.

If the source is fox news: do not trust it. At the least, apply a heavy, heavy pinch of salt. This is not so much because they're crazy far-right lunatics (though this is always a red flag), but because they are a shitty, shitty news station. Objectively.

Well, as you can see, that is conspiracy theory. But the news of Osama's death merely reached fox news, and remains in that document. The other documents are from Afghani and Pakistani papers. I have to find those sites, but google (given a conspiracy) is likely to bury the sites once visited in droves by conspiracy theorists, "osama dead pakistani paper" just links to the alleged recent death. I could link to you alex jones videos on it, but for some reason (and probably why he isn't dead), it doesn't matter how much evidence he shows you, people just don't take his personality seriously.

If the source is a text-heavy centre-justified website that looks like it's come straight from geocities, and all of the sources it cites are SIMILAR websites: do not trust it. Rational people would make the effort to create a website that actually appeals to a wide audience. Crackpots living in their parents' basement jamming stuff together using dreamweaver (at best) are only really looking for other crazies to be crazy with, so yeah: if it looks like the website was made in 1990 and has had no updates since then...heavy pinch of salt.

Unfortunately, we're so spoiled by production quality from propaganda, that dissenting voices are either drowned out or ignored as a result.

If the source uses the phrase "Zionist Agenda" or "Jewish Supremacy" in a non-ironic context: do not trust it. Ditto for "liberal agenda".

Right, also unfortunately, conspiracy theory, since the middle ages, is heavily related to antisemitism. In fact, that's what the hidden Jewish stereotype is, and it is only recently with the massive speculation about aliens and such, that we have been able to divorce conspiracy theory with anything regarding Jews (this is something Alex Jones tries tediously to do, perhaps suspiciously so). Obviously, phrases like "ZOG" "zionist occupied government" may be chanted by "white nationalist" groups, but it doesn't mean that they're wrong. They're just the types who would see such a problem the earliest. It's an ad hominem fallacy problem, that conspirators have exploited all too well.

Ultimately, you are right to question everything. An enquiring mind is a healthy mind. However, you're falling victim to the logical fallacy of "if not X then Y", when X and Y are totally unrelated. "I'm not sure I believe this whole assassination story...therefore it MUST be a super secret staged fake arranged by a shadowy organisation that for some reason controls both the US and pakistan (that natural powerhouse team!) and yet wants to make relations between those two nations more prickly than they are at present for some reason, no doubt because of their ultimate zionist agenda!"

Right, well it is more like "I don't believe this assassination story because I find it unbelievable in some way. So how does the psychological motivation of the assassination story line up with all of these other psychological phenomena which I already know to exist." I.e. "Who could have benefited from this?" "Was it simply coincidental?" This is one of the primary arguments used in Mossad's unacknowledged involvement in 9/11.

Question everything, but assume that generally speaking, the simplest, most basic "humans are a bit crap, also: shit happens" explanation is closest to the truth.

Right, but you'll be doing a lot more questioning when your having tea with a friend in some country in mainland Europe, and you begin questioning the holocaust together, and you get 3 years in prison for it. You either wait until a conspiracy steps you right on your foot, or you see it coming ahead of time.

[bobby 55]

http://www.debunking911.com/thermite.htm

when JFK was assassinated it is referred to as the CIA "coup".

Yeah right, everyone knows the mafia did it.

having tea with a friend in some country in mainland Europe, and you begin questioning the holocaust together, and you get 3 years in prison for it

I suppose there's incontrovertible proof, in fucking lala-land, that it didn't happen, and it's all some plot to defame Hitler, Eichmann, et al.

[DDL]

Also pretty sure it's not "sit down with a friend and discuss holocaust plausibility"...it's "stand in a public place shouting ZIONIST CONSPIRACY! HOLOCAUST IS A LIE!!!!". Possibly while handing out pamphlets.

...and also, why would I sit down with a friend and discuss holocaust plausibility anyway? And why would I drink tea?

And while I'm at it, "humans are a bit crap, shit happens" explains perfectly the slightly excessive guidelines governing holocaust denial. It doesn't even require shadowy unverifiable organisations.

Sorry, I'm finding this all a bit hard, tbh. I like you, and I'm very impressed with the modding work you've done so far, but this shit is all UTTERLY out of leftfield. I'm finding it difficult to reconcile the person who asks for help on trigger chains with the person who manages in the space of less than 5 posts to bring up Osama assassination faking, Birther conspiracies and Donald what-the-hell-is-that-on-your-head Trump, 9/11 truther arguments, the fucking Kennedy assassination, Noam Chomsky as a conspiracy theorist (no, seriously: Noam Chomsky?) and Holocaust denial.

It's like finding out that your friendly next door neighbour is actually utterly, irrevocably, rabidly, insane.

And, given the thrust of your posts and the eagerness with which you post up links rationalising your worldview, I don't think there's anything I can say, ever, that will make you question your current judgements. Even though questioning everything is EXACTLY what I think you should do (key point: also question the conspiracy arguments, not least because they are invariably insane).

This makes me sad.

[Neveos]

http://www.debunking911.com/thermite.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYW-z7nrTZk

I suppose there's incontrovertible proof, in fucking lala-land, that it didn't happen, and it's all some plot to defame Hitler, Eichmann, et al.

Yes, it is illegal to question the holocaust in most European countries. Here is a pretty good summation of the world war conspiracies (and also why they are trying to outlaw Islam, as the "Dome of the Rock" is exactly where the "Temple of the Mount" is which is integral to their prophecy of the messianic age.): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luNgPO-v ... re=related

[bobby 55]

Aren't there any videos without a particular slant to them? It's like watching Fox News but weirder. You'd be better off reading James A Michener's The Source for some non politicized history of the region.

[Neveos]

Also pretty sure it's not "sit down with a friend and discuss holocaust plausibility"...it's "stand in a public place shouting ZIONIST CONSPIRACY! HOLOCAUST IS A LIE!!!!". Possibly while handing out pamphlets.

Well, that's the idea, but not always how it is enforced. Regardless, freedom speech it is not.

And while I'm at it, "humans are a bit crap, shit happens" explains perfectly the slightly excessive guidelines governing holocaust denial. It doesn't even require shadowy unverifiable organisations.

Well, that's the nice thing about this guy. David Cole was a young jewish intellectual who began to research in behalf of such conspiracy theories, and a hit was put on his head by the JDL. He is supposedly still in hiding.

Sorry, I'm finding this all a bit hard, tbh. I like you, and I'm very impressed with the modding work you've done so far, but this shit is all UTTERLY out of leftfield. I'm finding it difficult to reconcile the person who asks for help on trigger chains with the person who manages in the space of less than 5 posts to bring up Osama assassination faking, Birther conspiracies and Donald what-the-hell-is-that-on-your-head Trump, 9/11 truther arguments, the fucking Kennedy assassination, Noam Chomsky as a conspiracy theorist (no, seriously: Noam Chomsky?) and Holocaust denial.

You could say we all have our obsessions.

It's like finding out that your friendly next door neighbour is actually utterly, irrevocably, rabidly, insane.

Right, but am I really? I mean we are all fans of Deus Ex, here. Was Deus Ex completely incoherent, or was it making a point? Granted, I don't exactly line up on everything within Deus Ex, and it is portrayed like a cheesy Bond film, but on the subject of global conspriacy theories, it really helps break that first barrier. "What are these terrorists I'm fighting?"

And, given the thrust of your posts and the eagerness with which you post up links rationalising your worldview, I don't think there's anything I can say, ever, that will make you question your current judgements. Even though questioning everything is EXACTLY what I think you should do (key point: also question the conspiracy arguments, not least because they are invariably insane).

Well, you see, I actually do watch these crazy long mundane documentaries and presentations. The only difference is that you don't/haven't. We will simply _not_ be in disagreement if you somehow manage to watch the following documentaries. Someone like me salivates at the site of them, but it would probably just be painfully useless for others (i.e. one must actually recognize the person presenting the research may differ as to what it's purpose is, but you have to personally take the research and add it into your own theory until you begin to see the bigger picture):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSakrYOpJ5s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POF3abAu4TI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6LWqgoh ... ture=share
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXt1cayx0hs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW6mJOqRDI4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzBpcuE8mpc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9pQMSsAgRU

Actually lots more, but I can't think of all of them.

This makes me sad.

aw. I love you too. However, it is that kind of revulsion and repulsion emotive response that they have engineered in anyone who suspects such things. I honestly can't blame anyone for not knowing what I know, because I can't blame them for not spending all of their free time looking into this.

But look at a recent event. If you bother to watch one thing... watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1wiGDYPALI

Arpaio's press conference on Obama's birth certificate fraud. The press conference shown in that link received little to no media attention. It basically deduces that the certificate is fake (something anyone technically inclined knew from the moment of its release). Now... ... How do I explain what occurs as a result of watching that? What does it imply?

[DDL]

Oh dear fucking jesus. An HOUR of solid "we searched a scan of Obama's birth certificate for fucking jpeg optimisation artefacts"? No wonder it wasn't covered in the mainstream press, it's batshit fucking mental.

Ok, quick question: why would the secret cabal that runs the world put up a figurehead with such an (apparently) easily questioned origin?

What does ANYONE stand to gain from putting a non-US born person in the president's seat, and then hiding it? There is absolutely no mileage in it. It's dumb. It's like..seriously, you have this apparent power and you couldn't find anyone better than a mixed race hawaiian guy who wasn't even born in the US?

What are they...like, testing how good their control is?

"HAY GUISE, TIHS ELECSHUN STUFFS IS TOO EASY LOL, LETS TRY ELECTIN TIHS GUY INSTAED!"

"LOL YES!!11"




....alternatively, he's just a US citizen who an awful lot of crazy people don't like very much, and who are grasping at any straws they can find to bring his legitimacy into question. I mean, we're talking tea party voters here, so it's not like they've really got any intellectual grasp of..well, anything.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." -Einstein.

[Jonas]

I'm just gonna pick the point that angers me the most and address that.

Neveos, you're American, right? And I'm going to go out on a limb and assume you weren't alive around the time World War 2 took place. You may not fully appreciate the gravity of the course of events that led up to that war, or the impact of the revelations that came to light following it. To a lot of Americans, I guess complete freedom of speech is some sort of holy grail that must never be violated. Many places in Europe we don't really see it that way - we're historically familiar with how hate speech, subversive lies, propaganda, and defamation can have dire, tragic, even genocidal consequences. Free speech is not some sort of law of nature, it's a privilege that you're granted through law, and you damn well better handle that privilege responsibly or the law will take it from you again.

[bobby 55]

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." -Einstein.

I'm sorely tempted to make that my new signature.

Edit: That in no way exempts me from being a stupid human.

[Neveos]

I'm just gonna pick the point that angers me the most and address that.

As you can see, the psychological engineering is apparently working. People get angry about 9/11 conspiracies too. You get the ad hominem: "How dare you dishonor the families of the dead by bringing this up!" Or the straw man: "It was a conspiracy? What do you mean it didn't happen?!? I was there!!"

It still happens strongly in the media. It's a joke rhetorical response in philosophy. I'm sorry, but one must restrain their desire to combat information with an expression which suggests physical force... in fact, it is the expression of physical force which results from lying. Kinda like when someone doesn't want to talk about something, but you do anyway, and they get really mad. Well it just so happens that there is usually an attempt to conceal information, and that is why it becomes physical, to end the exchange of information. Either the person is somehow embarassed about something, or it would cause them to cry, or they do not like the reaction it would cause in the other person. Does 911 or the holocaust really do any of that to you? Those are good reasons. However, I would doubt their sincerity, as we are far removed from things like the holocaust, and 911. It would be like me not wanting to talk about the Irish Potato famine because it happened to some of my ancestors. Or me not talking about 911 because I'm American.

However, there are bad reasons for concealing information with expressions of physical force: Maybe someone is lying, and they do not want to reveal it (like lying about time served in the military, and talking with someone who was in the military). Maybe they do not want follow through on their promise or duty (like a parent asking for a report card, or someone asking for gas money previously agreed upon), or maybe the person is trying to maintain the intellectual dignity of themselves or their friends (this is often the case when talking about this stuff with random people... a lot of people just do not know how to admit an innocent form of ignorance, even if they have been decieved, because then they appear weak, or a victim, and they do not want sympathy)

So basically emotive responses are the result of attempting to stifle informational exchange. However, strong dialectics are required for exchange of information, especially when the information is important. No emotive responses should be present, as it would be clear to both parties, eachother's positions, and synthesis can be achieved. For instance, forgive me for not being "polite". If I were being polite, I would not do things, or say things, which might encourage emotive responses. That is, essentially, what politeness is... however, I decided to engage in this dialog as a result of my original question as it did encourage emotive responses, and I hope that we can come to an understanding, rather than having the wrong perception about eachother, by simply ignoring it.

Neveos, you're American, right?

Yes.

And I'm going to go out on a limb and assume you weren't alive around the time World War 2 took place.

Yeah, I'm 26.

You may not fully appreciate the gravity of the course of events that led up to that war, or the impact of the revelations that came to light following it. To a lot of Americans, I guess complete freedom of speech is some sort of holy grail that must never be violated. Many places in Europe we don't really see it that way - we're historically familiar with how hate speech, subversive lies, propaganda, and defamation can have dire, tragic, even genocidal consequences. Free speech is not some sort of law of nature, it's a privilege that you're granted through law, and you damn well better handle that privilege responsibly or the law will take it from you again.

You're saying that Europe was a victim of free speech.

I'm letting you know, that Europe was, in reality, purposely "made" a victim of free speech.

You see after WW1, which, quite literally, founded Israel. Germany was in ruins, especially as a result of the sanctions placed upon it. Very prominent Jews lived in Germany at this time. Rothschilds bankers, Wittgenstein Steel company... in fact, here is a picture of a young Hitler with a young Wittgenstein boy. It was rumored that Jews were behind Germany's undoing. Groups within Germany began plotting revolutions. Spies were employed, by the German military, to infiltrate and subvert these movements, not necessarily antisemitic movements, but things like communist movements, revolutionary movements, and anti-occupation movements, to maintain the peace.

Hitler, it is known, was one of these spies (little known, but official fact). In fact, his former commander thought he was an idiot, and could not see how he even wrote the book he supposedly did. This commander ended up becoming a fugitive at the height of Nazi Germany.

Hitler was sent to infiltrate a cult known as the "Thule society". This was, technically, an antisemitic cult. They had an extremist view that they were all the product of a race of super beings (Aryans) who mated with ordinary men. Their goal was to attempt to breed out the unclean DNA, essentially, and society would prosper as a result. Obviously, the German being closer to the Aryan was opposed to the Jew, who was not... and it is from this cult that the Nazi rhetoric was derived. They weren't originally a violent movement, and attempted to deport all non-Aryans (including Jews) out of the country, viewing them as inferior pests.

Regardless, the official story is that Hitler became entranced with this society, and, apparently, simply stopped spying on them. His immediate effort was to spread the Thule society's message to the disenfranchised German population. They did this through very vibrant displays, and sometimes violent protests... they became heroes. Their main objective became: let's get the Jews out of Germany to where they are from. Where? Oh how convenient! The newly created state of Israel from the last world war!

The Nazi's and the Zionist made a pact to deport all the German Jews to Israel. They even once minted a coin to commemorate this. The Rothschild family, along with other Zionist bankers, would fund their settlements, and they did. It became law to be deported to Israel. This is the official recognition of a Zionist hand in Nazi operations.

But Europe was full of Jews? How could the Zionist fulfill the prophecy that "all the Jews return to Israel and repent on the same day" if there were all these other Jews in Europe? Well it would have to become the law of Europe, and thus, the beginnings of World War 2.

This is not even mentioning the fact that a captain in the Nazi party resigned once he became "disillusioned" with Hitler's true motivations once he found out that Zionists bankers were funding his party. And his second in command "Rudolph Hess", who, becoming so concerned of a conspiracy, hi-jacked a German plane, flew to Britain, and attempted to warn the authorities under Churchill (implying he thought Churchill was in on it), but failed to do so.

The holocaust, therefor, was actually a massive operation to forcibly deport Jews to Israel. And these camps were not gassing chambers, but delousing chambers. Thus the entire state of Israel is funded by the myth of a dying generation that they are "holocaust survivors".

So you see. It was not free speech that took a cult and turned it into a military. It was propaganda, and the suppression of dissenting speech, which did so. They want you to think it was free speech. They want you to think that dialog is incapable of amounting to anything other than another Holocaust... but really? How convenient is that? Not to be able to discuss what could very well be a big problem in the location which fell most victim to it. As Americans, we are lucky that the first amendment allows us to examine and spread the information about 9/11, for they surely would have outlawed it here if not for the constitution.

[Neveos]

Oh dear fucking jesus. An HOUR of solid "we searched a scan of Obama's birth certificate for fucking jpeg optimisation artefacts"? No wonder it wasn't covered in the mainstream press, it's batshit fucking mental.

Do you believe it was optimization which led to this effect?

Ok, quick question: why would the secret cabal that runs the world put up a figurehead with such an (apparently) easily questioned origin?

Hubris, basically. His mother and Indonesian father had already worked for the CIA, and he was groomed by people with a militant liberal agenda, such as Bill Ayers (who was a terrorist, and also allegedly worked for the federal government) specifically for the task of going into politics as a black politician. Remember, the problem with America, from a globalist's perspective, is that the constitution makes it sovereign and incorruptible. It has been compromised heavily since its founding, but someone with a background like Barack's would only help encourage this continual erosion of the mandates set forth by the founders.

Also, Obama's whole thing is a mystery. It is not even clear how he became president when both his parents were not American citizens (his father wasn't), which is all of the sudden, no longer a requirement, or definition of a "natural born citizen".

I'll go ahead and list the other things CTs have on watch about Obama:

That he is Muslim. I don't actually believe this, however it is more likely to be true than his being Christian. I actually believe the Zionists are attempting to make it appear that there is a global Islamic conspiracy as they continue to wage war on Islam. Obama would possibly embolden that very clever deception. I'm sure anyone living in Europe has heard of the "mass Islamic immigration" and "implementation of sharia law" scare. Both of them simply over-blown attempts to make a conspiracy look Islamic in nature. Kinda clever.

That he is gay. During his campaign in 2007, when attention was being placed on Obama's church (creating scandals to hammer it in that he was supposedly Christian), 3 openly gay members of the church died under mysterious circumstances. They were all shot, execution style, in their respective apartments. One of them was a choir leader, and before he died, he contacted a prominent gay in New York named Larry Sinclair, who he had never met. After their deaths, Sinclair went public with his story fearing for his own life, claiming he met Obama in 1999. He gave Obama money for drugs. Obama arrived in the limo with crack cocaine, and they smoked crack. He then "performed fellatio" on Obama. He was willing to submit to a joint lie detector test with Obama, but Obama never followed through on it, and of course, the media ignored it. Obama also faced accusations from former Harvard male law students who claimed Obama would make suggestive moves on them. He also lived with 2 gay roommates. Here's an image from those days. Also of note, recently, he became the first president to accept gay marriage, and while this is fine, about 2 weeks ago it was all over the news about his supposed former girlfriends' comments about him. He is now depicted as "conflicted on the issue" but ultimately "supportive".

That he killed his white grandmother. If you remember when he was elected, he almost hilariously out of sync, mentioned that he was getting past the death of his grandmother, who supposedly meant so much to him. The media largely ignored this death, and its potential impact on him.

That he killed or put his Kenyan grandmother under house arrest. Feds currently, guard the Kenyan house of the black grandmother from "Al Qaeda" threats. But before they did this, people went to interview this woman. She proudly claimed she remembered Obama's birth in a Kenyan hospital, stirring massive controversy. We are now led to believe his grandmother was senile. I guess the sister who made this claim, but later changed it, is senile as well.

That he killed Andrew Breitbart. Breitbart died shortly after claiming he had damning footage of a young Barack Obama. I'm divided on what happened here, despite how timely this was. It is almost a joke how this got covered up, if it did. His coroner also died under mysterious circumstances recently.

What does ANYONE stand to gain from putting a non-US born person in the president's seat, and then hiding it? There is absolutely no mileage in it. It's dumb. It's like..seriously, you have this apparent power and you couldn't find anyone better than a mixed race hawaiian guy who wasn't even born in the US?

You could ask the same question about Bush. Like I said, they are clever in the cover up, but shitty in execution. It's called a bought media.

What are they...like, testing how good their control is?

"HAY GUISE, TIHS ELECSHUN STUFFS IS TOO EASY LOL, LETS TRY ELECTIN TIHS GUY INSTAED!"

"LOL YES!!11"

That is exactly the explanation we are now giving for these painfully obvious conspiracies. The fact that Americans can now be killed/torture/detained and now strip searched without due process, and arrested with a felony charge for protesting... Dude, it's like they are scared, in the way that only the illuminati can be scared.

...alternatively, he's just a US citizen who an awful lot of crazy people don't like very much, and who are grasping at any straws they can find to bring his legitimacy into question. I mean, we're talking tea party voters here, so it's not like they've really got any intellectual grasp of..well, anything.

And you just answered your own question. All of this legitimate questioning may as well be the result of xenophobia.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." -Einstein.

My friend loves that quote, but I've always found it to be more of like a joke, or something. There's humans all over the spectrum of intelligence.

lol, I love you DDL!! I do love you. I'm sorry that I appear to be conflicting with you or something. I love my DDL. I want my DDL to benefit from seeing the light. Because things will be hitting the fan soon with this potential Ron Paul election.

[Jonas]

As you can see, the psychological engineering is apparently working.

Oh, I'm brain washed.

...yeah, I clearly can't win this one.

Backing slowly out of the thread.

Bye.

[Neveos]

As you can see, the psychological engineering is apparently working.

Oh, I'm brain washed.

...yeah, I clearly can't win this one.

Backing slowly out of the thread.

Bye.

Sorry, my friend. I honestly didn't mean anything to seem derogatory or patronizing. I was just trying to share with you the things I consider of great interest. You can relocate the thread, now if you'd like, but you might become interested in some of the documentaries I've linked at some later time. They really are very thought provoking, if anything.

[Jonas]

Thread moved.