I'm arguing with children if you honestly think that. I think the only person who watched that presentation was DDL.

It's such a hilarious explanation. It's like you people don't even click the links, and I'm just not conveying any information when I do so. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdQh18kvpRU

The structural steel is vertical! Especially regarding the exterior columns! Meaning kinetic energy does not factor in to their being crushed.

Yep that's me, just a narrow minded fuckwit who won't take notice of anyone else's point of view. It's a wonder I'm not the founding member of some crackpot theory.

@ Neveos

When a controlled demolition happens, all the steel columns all around the building are detonated, and the building falls, yes?
Assuming that that a significant number of the steel supports were destroyed, the collapse would happen, yes?
So if the plane smashed into the side of the building and tore apart many of the supports, then those supports would be gone. This would happen because the plane came in with a bunch of kinetic energy, and warped and tore apart a lot of the things it came into contact with. Are you with me so far?

So if the remainder of the supports were to collapse under the strain of the floors above, because they were weakened by the collossal heat of the jetfuel burning, then that would make one of the floors collapse, yeah?
I mean, fair enough that you think that the combined tearing of the airplane, the jetfuel and the additional strain on the remaining supports couldn't pancake at least one floor, but you understand that this is the concept laid before you, yes?

Ok.

So the link you sent, apart from having the most slow-speaking guy in the world, is really concerned with the pancake collapse itself - the idea that if a floor pancaked (which they don't think it would, but if it did), then the simulation has the towers collapse far too slowly. To which I'd respond: ok. Tell me how you could make the towers collapse more rapidly if pancaking a floor is too slow to match reality. What did they do, pancake several floors? And why did they pancake several floors? Wouldn't a slow fall be just as good as a fast one? Why is the speed of the pancaking even a point of contention...why would air-plane demolition necessarily be slower than regular demolition?

And where is this guys simulation illustrating that his theory of the collapse explains the actual collapse better?

Probably, and he ripped it apart spectacularly so I don't have to watch it I mean, these stupid pseudo-scientific documentaries (and that's being generous) have been torn a new one many times already. I have nothing to add to DDL's thorough post pointing out how stupid it is.



I'm not sure earthquake-proofing would offer any protection, actually. The general idea of it (from my understanding) is to make the structure flexible so the building can move with the earthquake rather than resisting the movement and breaking apart. If the floor supports were damaged and the floors began to fall onto eachother the same vertical collapse would happen.



I'm curious, Neveos, why you're willing to accept 1600's "architects and engineers" as support for your ideas while ignoring the rest of the scientific and engineering community? For all I care 4000 architects could call 9/11 an inside job but they're fucking architects, not engineers, but I have a sneaking suspicion that very few of the engineers in that number are in any way qualified to be making such claims. Especially over, say, people like this.

Ha! A tower of dominoes. I love how buildings these days are just dominoes sitting carefully on each other. I heard that modern buildings have upgraded to lincoln log technology. Very complex stuff, couldn't wrap my head around it.

You realize the floors are being supported, right? That there are very strong parts of the building which have no air between them going all the way up? I think they are called columns.

Are you seriously suggesting that whatever it was that he was finding in the dust of the world trade center, that it was the plane?

http://www.infowars.com/images/nypd_911_05.jpg Look at all that material from the plane!!!

So you wonder how there are explosives and thermitic cutter charges, and then you claim thermite is an explosive. So I'm glad you answered yourself, because it isn't working when I do it. Thermite is even more powerful than dynamite.

Thermite is an attempt to explain this.

Alright, thought experiment time:

A child plays with her father everyday since their mother left the family 4 years ago. She looks forward to him coming home every day. He works in the WTC. She loses her father in the 9/11 attacks. She weeps in a way which can only be described as a bottomless sorrow. She asks you why?

This moves you, and you want to hold someone accountable. Now, besides the boatloads of inconsistencies in the story itself, on the evidence of the collapse alone, you have the chance to make a decision:

One button ends the livlihoods of everyone involved -if it was- a conspiracy.

Another button ends the livlihoods of everyone involved -if it was NOT- a conspiracy.

The little girl asks you to do it for her father. What are you going to do?

It's too funny, it's like, "I don't want to be on this team, are there other people like me? Well, there we go! Other people are already on this team, so hA!"

It's kinda why we have such crazy explanations for what a "dollar" is. It still isn't a defined entity. That's because the real definition is something people don't want to accept.

I would be more than willing to not even reference the 1600 architects and engineers, but SOME PEOPLE (hint hint) can only be argued against by methods of peer pressure. All of you people know that if even a fraction of said engineers were to show up on this board, that you would be like, "Oh my master! What doth thou biddest?!"

I'm not that kind of person. I don't think anyone needs expertise to suspect a conspiracy, especially with regards to WTC7. That shit didn't even look like a pancake.

"If one was wired for demolition. They all were."

Citation needed?

"If my cat is called Tim, then the WTC was brought down by the government filling it with explosives."

In other news, the problem with saying "1600 architects agree!" is that it's still a tiny, tiny number of architects compared to all those who don't agree.

Hell, it would be childs play to find 1600 fucking scientists who believe in creationism, but that wouldn't change the fact that creationism is utter bullshit and that the vast majority of scientists do not believe in creationism.

You can have a lot of people on your side and still be wrong. You can also have a lot of people on your side and still be vastly overwhelmingly in the minority. In this case, you get to be both.

But hey, if you can find a tame architect, bring em along. It could be fun.



No, no and no. You even quote me saying it's NOT an explosive. This is like basic fucking reading comprehension here.
Thermite does not explode. It is famously non-explosive, and is widely employed because of this. I did my best to imagine a manner in which it might be possibly formulated to explode, and then proceeded to point out how this (if possible) would simply eliminate the ability for thermite to do the thing you would actually want to use it for.

Hey, I'll quote myself here:


Here, since we're spamming the FUCK out of this forum with youtube vids, here's a video of some people doing thermite welding: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCqG3rWtNbc

(also awesome backing track)

Note how they totally could've substituted dynamite, there.

That's the last straw man. You don't know anything of the kind. If I'm not willing to accept that supposition then I'd be only too happy to tell one of those 1600 to their face.

Button time again: There are two buttons in front of Bob. Button A: Continue with this thread.
Button B: Hit ejector seat.
Bbbbbbeee seeing ya.

Alright, I'm tired of convincing Deus Ex fans that there actually is a global conspiracy acting against their best interests. Conspiracy theory is becoming wildly popular, so you are welcome for the crash course in it. Now when the "shtf" you'll get to tell all of your friend's in your internment camps that you knew all along it was "tptb" that did this to us.

Why is conspiracy theory becoming popular? Because it isn't just the tall tales being told by the disillusioned old maintenance man who says hi to you when you walk down the stairs on your way to the car everyday. Even if what he was saying was interesting, or making sense, you could never really bother to research it.

Well the internet has allowed people to do what I have essentially done, which is immediately link to news sources, expert opinions, and eye witness accounts. With all of this suppressed information being exchanged at alarming rates, a picture is being built, and people are starting to witness the prison walls all around them. Kinda what the Matrix was all about, actually.

Because of course there will be internment camps. And of course they'll be sure to avoid interning all the conspiracy theorists. You guys are safe, it's us sheeple that are in danger.

-_-

The internet is a double edged sword: it allows people to disseminate information, but also disinformation. It allows crazy people to find each other, and generate self-reinforcing hypotheses of craziness. You've linked to a lot of crazy people, and a lot of crazy websites. And a lot of people who's 'expert' status I find highly debatable at best.

If there is this massive global conspiracy, why, with all this new information sharing technology, does all the 'evidence' look so fucking shaky, and why is so much of it still easily discredited? There's only so long one can look for something before concluding that maybe it's just not fucking there.

On the plus side I now have really damn high hopes for any Deus Ex mod that you manage to produce, Neveos. I'm confident that it will be made with conviction

lol, you're right, that's why I'm doing it.

Because:

a) People are stupid
b) People like to sound more intelligent than they are, so they talk 'science' to a bunch of people who don't know the first thing about science. Have you ever heard a creationist try and have a scientific argument? It's hilarious.
c) People enjoy thinking they know more than other people. Hence terms like "Sheep" (or "Sheeple") and the fact that every single conspiracy video ever includes the phrase "Wake up"



It also lets you ignore links to news sources, expert opinions and eye witness accounts. That's the real beauty of the internet.

Double post and dragging up an old argument kicking and screaming. But, I can't help myself.



I was scanning something at work today. Like I said, the commercial scanner in my office does this.

Here you go. Any meta-information is intact, you can even see what Canon copier we have.

Just curious what you'll make of that really.

It would be of the utmost use to me, if you would print out Obama's birth certificate, and perform the exact same process you did for this document. I have uploaded the birth certificate here. Click the bottom blue download button. I understand there will be differences, but I am interested in seeing them.