Hello!

A bit by accident I happened to read the last two pages of a heated debate here (http://offtopicproductions.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=11664) in the OT section and it was about "opinions", so to say.

Now that topic is locked and over three months old so I thought I could start a new one here because it's an interesting subject after all.

I feel that in the old topic there has been some sort of confusion between "opinion" and "evaluation", which are two different concepts.

The way I see it (and hey, it's an opinion ) is that an opinion is not really based on facts or processed data but rather on taste. It's personal and by definition it can not really be an object of critic. Being that the case, one person might hate or love a game (because they were speaking of games there) even just looking at its cover. There is no "burden of proof" (term used in the old thread by DaveW) for an opinion or another opposite to it.

It's different when we speak about evaluation instead. An evaluation is based on facts and it can be more or less competent and detailed. It has to do with appraising (when it comes to objects, for instance) and even diagnosing (in medicine, for example). It can be criticized because it can be objectively wrong. Speaking about games, we can talk about reviews: they should not express a mere opinion but judge the worth of the final product.

Cybernetic Pig in the old thread complained about people stating that one specific game was not to their liking. According to him, the fault lied in them not having accumulated enough game experience in order to express a "fair" judgement.

His critic could apply only to people who reviewed a game, but not to opinions.

So in the end, I think it was just a matter of miscommunication there. Personally I believe that a game evaluation should have different qualities to be reliable: one of them having experienced it as fully as possible. But it's not the most important one.

Feel free to chime in and tell me what you think!

Maybe he (CyberP) wants games with something new and he disliked certain games like Metro: Last Light, Mass Effect, etc.

It is fair enough to dislike stuff, as we are all different. So deal with it, but how you say it does matter in a way.

Can we have a rule against posting every single post entirely in colored text? Please? I'll give you a dollar.

So you found one of the most aggravating and least constructive threads in the history of these forums (not including anything El Cid ever contributed to), and thought... damn I'm sad I missed out on that clusterfuck! We should totally revive that discussion!

There was a reason the thread was closed and bans were effectuated

Isn't "judging the worth of the final product" voicing one's opinion about it ? I don't think there is such a thing as a "fair" judgment.
Facts may be objective, but judgments are biased. The level of expertise does not matter : for instance, an academic doing a research paper will allegedly try to get his/her facts straight but his/her reasoning and conclusion will be ultimately his/her own.
Also, depending on the way you present established facts you can justify almost everything.


What do you think is the most important one ?

Note : all of the above is my opinion, not some universal truth

Edit : Jonas, I just saw your post. I'm posting this anyway, hope you don't mind ?

[quote="Babeuf97"]Isn't "judging the worth of the final product" voicing one's opinion about it ? I don't think there is such a thing as a "fair" judgment.
Facts may be objective, but judgments are biased. The level of expertise does not matter : for instance, an academic doing a research paper will allegedly try to get his/her facts straight but his/her reasoning and conclusion will be ultimately his/her own.
Also, depending on the way you present established facts you can justify almost everything./quote]

You heard it here first: It doesn't matter how well-informed your opinion is. I guess that's why the American political system is so successful.

brb, asking my cat what she thinks about the NSA scandal.

Not sure if I made myself clear. It does matter how well-informed your opinion is. However, this won't magically turn your opinion into an objective statement.

I really look forward to your cat's opinion though.

My cat's very pro-shoebox but that's about it.

Is your cat a hipster ? I thought baskets were more common.
(On second thought, I won't argue about cats. They are awesome.)

Cats totally love boxes. It's pretty normal.

Thread is now about cats.

Can't see Jonas objecting to that, at least.

My cat's pretty stupid. Plus all it does most of the time is stare out of the window longing to go outside. But if I do let it go, it'll either get into a fight with the neighbours cat and lose, or get in a fight with a fox and lose. In fact, I think it'll lose every fight it gets into, it even lost a fight with a bee.

Except that one with the spider. It totally destroyed that spider.

Well, I did not miss the insults of course. But I thought the subject was interesting and thought we might have more constructive contributes here.

Hm... I am not sure there is one really. What I meant with that is that I might find a game evaluation satisfying even if the reviewer has not played the game from beginning to end, triggering all possible different situations that the game offer.

As an example, I take Knights of the Old Republic: it's not vital that to have tried the Dark Side path too in order to make a good review but it'd help.

I rather like your cat.