HDTP beta

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Morpheus
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Re: HDTP beta

Post by Morpheus »

This is irrelevant really, but since I saw the HDTP mini-crossbow with scope, I realized, in real life, you couldn't use a scope with a mini-crossbow like that, unless it had a trigger fire, rather than pulling back your hand to fire it or you'd be looking through the scope, and putting your eye out to fire it. Again, myself being over observant and probably irrelevant! :lol:
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Cybernetic pig
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Re: HDTP beta

Post by Cybernetic pig »

I say leave it or change the firing mechanism. It's looks way too cool to remove it as is.
DDL
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Re: HDTP beta

Post by DDL »

Honestly, I never had any idea how the minicrossbow firing mechanism works. I assume some sort of wrist-flex action like a webshooter or something, or a trigger button in the palm of the hand.
Either way, you'd look stupid gawping through a scope while using it...but hey: bCanHaveScope=true, so what can you do, eh? :)
ggrotz
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Re: HDTP beta

Post by ggrotz »

Morpheus wrote:This is irrelevant really, but since I saw the HDTP mini-crossbow with scope, I realized, in real life, you couldn't use a scope with a mini-crossbow like that, unless it had a trigger fire, rather than pulling back your hand to fire it or you'd be looking through the scope, and putting your eye out to fire it. Again, myself being over observant and probably irrelevant! :lol:
Actually a scope with a crossbow is a thing. But I was never under the impression that any of the stock DX weapons were going for realism, so it really hasn't bothered me all that much.
tetracycloide
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Re: HDTP beta

Post by tetracycloide »

Well that crossbow is fired from the shoulder like a gun and the scope would be very near the eye. The mini-crossbow is fired from the wrist. However, there are scopes for bows that mount near the wrist so it's not all that strange to see a scope on a wrist mounted crossbow. Those scopes don't look like the then black tubes though.
Cybernetic pig
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Re: HDTP beta

Post by Cybernetic pig »

ggrotz wrote:
Morpheus wrote: But I was never under the impression that any of the stock DX weapons were going for realism.
Yeah what is with that anyway? the universal weapon mod kits have text descriptions to explain how they work, and they are too fun to not include and should take priority over realism, but the guns themselves baffle me. I suppose future guns would be super powerful and require little skill what with even modern tech like the corner shot, heat seeking missiles ect so I suppose it was a matter of fun & skill over realism again, but they could have at least had say the glock look like something futuristic. Stealth pistol, plasma rifle ect all are acceptable but that shitty pistol and the sawed-off?

*goes off to read the text descriptions of the weapons again

EDIT: Ok military issue sidearms now use 10mm in 2052, not much of an improvement.
Also: "30-06 rounds have been the preffered tool for individuals requiring "one shot, one kill" for over 50 years"

In the real world 30-06 calibre has been around for over 100 years (to date) but only used in sniper rifles since around 2000 if the above quote considers real world facts (it's Deus Ex, so probably)

Apparently .308 calibre is preffered these days in precision rifles over the 30-06 calibre. 40 years from now it is surely to be fucking lasers or something anyway.
Also no nanotech guns? Guns that fire self replicating robots that target vital body parts then disintegrate after 20 secs. if you miss then the robots adjust the trajectory at high speeds. for electrical targets they discharge emp. target requiring Non-lethal then tranquilizer.
No skill involved, ill take the shitty Glock over realism (or with HDTP, sexy Glock). That is what LGS/Ion storm understood- simulation/realism for everything except anything that interfered with fun/gameplay. It is what modern devs dont understand it seems.
Also riot prod would be super extreme range taser, but again stealth would be too easy.

Still, the standard issue pistol should have a more futuristic visual design, amoung others.

They got the weapons right in DX:HR at least, though some of them were pretty unbalanced.

This one is my favourite excuse for realism/simulation with the universal weapon mods in DX:
Deus Ex wrote: =====Range=====

By lubricating the firing path with synthetic synovial fluid, the drag on fired
projectiles is greatly reduced with a consequent increase in range.

<UNATCO OPS FILE NOTE SC111-BLUE> Coating the primary valve system of a
flamethrower or plasma gun in a synovial lubricant and then over-pressuring the
delivery system will also result in an increase in range. Little trick I
learned during field testing. -- Sam Carter <END NOTE>
.
Last edited by Cybernetic pig on Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
DDL
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Re: HDTP beta

Post by DDL »

I'm quite surprised you're claiming they went for "gameplay" over "realism" by NOT including a nanite disintegration cannon. ;)

"Guns that fire bullets" are reliable technology, widely disseminated, recognizably familiar with almost everyone, and have been around for hundreds of years: it's far less likely that everyone shifts to lazors in the next 50 years than it is that they keep using the same shit with minor tweaks. The plasma gun, definitely a high-tech futuristic weapon, is only at the stage of "experimental prototype"*. Hell, nano-augmented agents, the absolute pinnacle of cutting edge research (that have necessitated a breeding program started around 30 years ago, and robust development of human cloning) are at the stage of ..."well, we have two. And one of them's a traitor."

Their basic premise for DX was more or less "2052 looks exactly like the 1990s, but with robots sometimes", which is actually a far more accurate assessment of human development than HRs neo-renaissance and two-tiered cities** (in 2027, no less).

But yes, universal weaponmods are a bit silly. We did actually try to make them look reasonably similar (the same laser model is used on quite a few weapons) but sometimes it just looked waaay better to have a higher tech scope (GEP) than the basic one. And rule of cool generally trumps realism. :)


*though I note that single-shot handheld plasma weapons are apparently common civilian issue..so it's not perfect. Still, <3 PS20.

**having said all this, now I've actually been to Singapore, I can almost believe some country down that neck of the woods could almost pull this off. Not in 15 years, though.
Cybernetic pig
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Re: HDTP beta

Post by Cybernetic pig »

Have a little faith in the human race, when it comes to warfare we can achieve anything!

We already have microwave emmiters: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Denial_System
Fully automatic shotguns with explosive rounds: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atchisson_Assault_Shotgun
Rail guns: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railgun (technically rail cannon though)
PEPS: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulsed_Energy_Projectile
The Laser-Induced Plasma Channel (LIPC): http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-18630622
Unmanned spy drones of death: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_At ... Q-9_Reaper
And even invisible fucking tanks: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkkWya-oun0

That's terror!

As much as I love Deus Ex and how true it is to real life it was totally wrong about future weaponry (hopefully intentionally wrong). Doesn't mean conventional weapons will phase out though.
DDL wrote: <3 PS20..
No way!
DDL wrote: **having said all this, now I've actually been to Singapore, I can almost believe some country down that neck of the woods could almost pull this off. Not in 15 years, though.
Lol, what was it you wrote in another thread- "Archologies 4 lyfe, homez" or something? Heres another link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shimizu_Mega-City_Pyramid
Last edited by Cybernetic pig on Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:30 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Cybernetic pig
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Re: HDTP beta

Post by Cybernetic pig »

Anyway some feedback for HDTP for you to consider looking at:

-Flares do not work underwater (though on land they look awesome).

-I see someone else mentioned the unatco boat, but also in the boat "cutscene" maybe you could add a particle effect behind the boat for water splashing?

-the laser sheet that you added so the player knows if laser is on or not seems slightly misaligned. (really appreciate this though, makes laser actually useful, and looks cool). Also maybe when laser is on, crosshairs could turn off? just a small request :smile:

- Love even the rats got HDTP-ified :smile: Rats in the sewers after mole people like to scurry off the platform they are spawned on but they just float in mid air scurrying around. I assume they have no physics like vanilla but they shouldnt be scurrying off the edge. Im not sure if this is vannila behaviour too but I dont think so.

- Assault rifle looks misaligned with the crosshair, really jarring. I beg of you to prioritise this one.

- When attacking glass you no longer get crack textures before it breaks. I suspect this was probably deliberate to avoid even more work, dont blame ya.

- Some floating objects about, only jarring ones are Flamethrower cannisters (ammo). The size must have been scaled a touch.

Thanks for HDTP, it is beautiful. Dont know what this uproar RE: HDTP Gunther I hear about was for, he looks great to me. Sawed-off makes me sad though.

I fiddled with some of the maps in Unreal ED before playing so that may be the cause of some of the above, but I doubt it. I only imported some of 2027s music to replace some of the more commonly used tracks in the game, and also fixed GOTY having no return to NYC music.

Might ask Ded and Co for permission to release as a "mod" (That I could take no credit for at all whatsoever) because the maps ive placed certain tracks in go really well, and every vanilla track is still used at least once. Yeah it takes no work whatsoever for someone to jump in Unreal Ed and do it themselves, but some people just prowl for mods and then move on, so it would be useful to them. And as much as I like NYCStreets_Music it sure is overused.

EDIT RE: RATS: The location I spotted them doing this is airfield sewers just after mole people, there are two sentry bots patrolling in a caved-in area. Go down the manhole just before the bots to find the rats.
Last edited by Cybernetic pig on Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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FastGamerr
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Re: HDTP beta

Post by FastGamerr »

DDL wrote:Needless to say, this is now fixed. Le sigh. May upload the latest package version later if I get time.
Please do (whenever you're able to, of course!), just realized how this problem affects DXN as well.

(... or maybe I shouldn't overdose on avoiding making separate Pawns)
DDL
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Re: HDTP beta

Post by DDL »

Cybernetic pig wrote: -Flares do not work underwater (though on land they look awesome).
This is unchanged, original behaviour.
Cybernetic pig wrote: -the laser sheet that you added so the player knows if laser is on or not seems slightly misaligned. (really appreciate this though, makes laser actually useful, and looks cool). Also maybe when laser is on, crosshairs could turn off? just a small request :smile:
On which weapon? Mind you, if it require reanimating it's unlikely to change.
Crosshairs off is a gameplay change, we don't do those. You could probably bind your laser key to the same key as "toggle crosshair", though.
Rats in the sewers after mole people like to scurry off the platform they are spawned on but they just float in mid air scurrying around. I assume they have no physics. Im not sure if this is vannila behaviour too but I dont think so.
Should be no physics changes. How far out do they float? Remember they have fairly squat but wide collision cylinders.
- Assault rifle looks misaligned with the crosshair, really jarring. I beg of you to prioritise this one.
What does this mean? Screenshot might help?
- When attacking glass you no longer get crack textures before it breaks. I suspect this was probably deliberate to avoid even more work, dont blame ya.
You never got crack textures on breakable glass. Non-breakable glass yes, breakable glass no.
- Some floating objects about, only jarring ones are Flamethrower cannisters (ammo). The size must have been scaled a touch.
The size should be damn-near identical, so floatiness shouldn't happen. Any particular examples?
Cybernetic pig
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Re: HDTP beta

Post by Cybernetic pig »

First one is Laser sight sheet periphiral.
Second is Floating object.
Third is Floating Rat.
Hope i'm not being too nit-picky.
Attachments
Shot0000.jpg
Shot0003.jpg
Shot0002.jpg
Last edited by Cybernetic pig on Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Cybernetic pig
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Re: HDTP beta

Post by Cybernetic pig »

If you were to put a straight line from the end of the assualt rifle barrel (aligned) it would end up above the crosshair. The angle just seems off, needs to be lowered on Y axis by about ten or twenty degrees imo (the whole gun).

I mean no offense, its easy to miss details, especially since HDTP is such a huge project.
DDL wrote: You never got crack textures on breakable glass. Non-breakable glass yes, breakable glass no.
I must be confusing the PC and PS2 version, lol. The mirror in smugglers and the auto doc door in the free clinic did this (both are breakable, though probably not with the actor/same properties as breakable glass though anyway).

Also would you look at that, I have aqualung (shot with the rat) :P
wtf? I have 20 lockpicks already...
DDL wrote: You could probably bind your laser key to the same key as "toggle crosshair", though.
How would I go about binding both laser and crosshair toggle to the same key?
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DDL
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Re: HDTP beta

Post by DDL »

Ok! So by laser sheet, do you mean that you can see a tiny bit of diffuse redness coming out around the edges of the laser attachment on the pistol? Because if so, that's wholly deliberate, so you can actually SEE that you have the laser switched on. The sheet is actually the muzzleflash (:)) and I had to do some reasonably convoluted coding just to get it to multitask like that. So if that's what you're questioning, then: not a bug, a feature. :p

The napalm cannister (especially given the highlight box) does look a lot like the origin has shifted, so I'll look into that.

As for the assaultgun, I confess yes: that level of depth is something I never even realised people noticed or cared about. I can certainly tweak it if nobody else objects: it should be a relatively trivial fix.

Oh, and finally: "Sawed-off makes me sad though" <-What does this mean?

Anyway, thanks for the screenshots, they definitely help. :)
Cybernetic pig
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Re: HDTP beta

Post by Cybernetic pig »

Laser sheet: Yep, but it only shows from the bottom half of the attachment, instead of the whole circumference of the front end. Its hard to tell in that screenie, but could you just duplicate and then raise the second sheet up so it is visible on the top half too(or scale and adjust position)?
sorry my description sucks.
DDL wrote:
As for the assaultgun, I confess yes: that level of depth is something I never even realised people noticed or cared about. I can certainly tweak it if nobody else objects: it should be a relatively trivial fix.
Yes please! I hope you understood my again shitty description- the whole gun needs rotating downwards abit.
DDL wrote: Oh, and finally: "Sawed-off makes me sad though" <-What does this mean?
Quoting myself from another thread: "Hope you stick around and continue to contribute to DX. Speaking of: Any chance you could do a better version of the sawed-off shottie? No disrespect to original author, but it lacks the same quality as the other guns in my opinion"
Last edited by Cybernetic pig on Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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