Deus Ex Advancement Mod v7 Release

[Cybernetic pig]

Yes, please do! The sword was just perfect as it was (except it's given power... but then again it is a nano sword. It should be able to kill someone easily :p)

I disagree. Deus Ex in regards to it's gameplay systems is an RPG. The sword becomes the ultimate melee weapon of death once you upgrade it, therefore actually making combat strength and low-tech skill worth a damn. Even if you do not upgrade it via low tech and CS it is still ridiculously useful, the best melee weapon. But it's size and slow equip speed in addition to not being super OP without upgrades may turn you to use the other melee weapons, which are all much better than vanilla (but still not as good as the tooth).
Honestly though it is still the sword of death even with the significant nerf. Strike the head and you take down standard human enemies in one.

Your mod is very close to being perfect (I mean, I enjoyed it when I haven't even experienced half of what the mod has to offer) and I wish you keep modifying it even more. Like Bjorn said, don't stop until you feel it is ready!

Thank you, though you really need to play with the maps for the full picture
I'm still not 100% if there will be a version 6. Because as I said, no support. The mod already does a lot but I'd need help to take things further since I have no skills in 3D art and other fields.
Whilst in it's current state I can say "it's done" and be somewhat satisfied because it certainly does enough and I am very proud of it, there is still so much potential such as the modifications I posted earlier in the thread.

[gamer0004]

I disagree. Deus Ex in regards to it's gameplay systems is an RPG. The sword becomes the ultimate melee weapon of death once you upgrade it, therefore actually making combat strength and low-tech skill worth a damn. Even if you do not upgrade it via low tech and CS it is still ridiculously useful, the best melee weapon. But it's size and slow equip speed in addition to not being super OP without upgrades may turn you to use the other melee weapons, which are all much better than vanilla (but still not as good as the tooth).
Honestly though it is still the sword of death even with the significant nerf. Strike the head and you take down standard human enemies in one.

Not quite. It was designed as a both a simulator and an RPG. In fact, for a significant time during its development, there were two development teams working on the game, one simulation team and one RPG team. Warren Spector hoped this would generate some healthy competition between the two, but ultimately it led to too much miscommunication that they were merged into one team. I think you can see the simulation heritage in many aspects of the design of DX, and it is one of the reasons why I like it so much.

[Drewie]

I disagree. Deus Ex in regards to it's gameplay systems is an RPG. The sword becomes the ultimate melee weapon of death once you upgrade it, therefore actually making combat strength and low-tech skill worth a damn. Even if you do not upgrade it via low tech and CS it is still ridiculously useful, the best melee weapon. But it's size and slow equip speed in addition to not being super OP without upgrades may turn you to use the other melee weapons, which are all much better than vanilla (but still not as good as the tooth).
Honestly though it is still the sword of death even with the significant nerf. Strike the head and you take down standard human enemies in one.

You have a point there but I still dislike the laser sight and it's long range. Probably the only feature I hate about the mod. This will sound silly but could you upload a patch removing the sword's laser sight and long range and keep it's nerfed power? Or maybe send it to me personally? I don't know...

[Cybernetic pig]

In weaponNanoSword.uc

Code: Select all

state Idle
{
	function BeginState()
	{
		Super.BeginState();
		LightType = LT_Steady;

//		if (!bLasing&&(Owner!=none)&&(Owner.IsA('DeusExPlayer')))
//         DeusExPlayer(Owner).ToggleLaser();
      if (Owner.IsA('DeusExPlayer')) LaserOn();
	}
}

The line "if (Owner.IsA('DeusExPlayer')) LaserOn();", comment that out. Then look in the default properties and set accurate range and max range both to 96.

If you have no idea what I am talking about, then I'll consider recompiling and sending it to you. I don't mind making such a change because I understand the controversy though I disagree with it.

[Cybernetic pig]

Not quite. It was designed as a both a simulator and an RPG. In fact, for a significant time during its development, there were two development teams working on the game, one simulation team and one RPG team. Warren Spector hoped this would generate some healthy competition between the two, but ultimately it led to too much miscommunication that they were merged into one team. I think you can see the simulation heritage in many aspects of the design of DX, and it is one of the reasons why I like it so much.

I'm well aware of Deus Ex's "Immersive Sim" roots, and am an avid supporter of the genre, you know this.
As I said before, there is a fine line between gameplay | simulation, if it comes down to it and you have to choose between one or the other in regards to a specific design decision (like the sword), I'd pick gameplay. I believe that was the devs philosophy too for the most part, again using the skill system as a notable example. They just went way over the line with the sword as an exception. 100 damage, this rendered low-tech skill and combat strength near useless. Additionally, now that GMDX makes microfibral muscle much better, that's even less incentive to get combat strength, so the nerfing of the tooth was even more necessary.

Also, can I have the source of the "sim team/RPG team" claim? Sounds far-fetched to me as there is more to DX and game development than just RPG and Sim design, though granted those are probably it's strongest aspects aside from the story. I remember hearing in a Spector lecture that there was two separate teams, but I never heard the team goals assigned.

[Drewie]

If you have no idea what I am talking about, then I'll consider recompiling and sending it to you. I don't mind making such a change because I understand the controversy though I disagree with it.

Unfortunately, no, I don't. If you could send it to me that would be great! Oh and I also tried limiting the Auto-Save feature to only one auto-save (you know, to replace it back with the Quick Save) but failed aswell. Could you explain how I could do that please? [I read somewhere that I could change it with the user.ini so I guess that shouldn't be hard for me, right?]

[Cybernetic pig]

Oh and I also tried limiting the Auto-Save feature to only one auto-save (you know, to replace it back with the Quick Save) but failed aswell. Could you explain how I could do that please? [I read somewhere that I could change it with the user.ini so I guess that shouldn't be hard for me, right?]

You were warned that hardcore mode wouldn't work properly without GMDX's maps, and I cannot fix this one for you because I don't know the code and I bet it's all wizardry; difficult to decipher. If you play on any difficulty except hardcore saving is vanilla. Since you don't have GMDX's maps you must be relying on the loading screen autosave only, which I assume is a nightmare and very punishing, but there is nothing I can do for you here, sorry. If you decide to attempt to play mods together that are specifically stated as incompatible then this is what happens unfortunately.

[Drewie]

Oh and I also tried limiting the Auto-Save feature to only one auto-save (you know, to replace it back with the Quick Save) but failed aswell. Could you explain how I could do that please? [I read somewhere that I could change it with the user.ini so I guess that shouldn't be hard for me, right?]

You were warned that hardcore mode wouldn't work properly without GMDX's maps, and I cannot fix this one for you because I don't know the code and I bet it's all wizardry; difficult to decipher. If you play on any difficulty except hardcore saving is vanilla. Since you don't have GMDX's maps you must be relying on the loading screen autosave only, which I assume is a nightmare and very punishing, but there is nothing I can do for you here, sorry. If you decide to attempt to play mods together that are specifically stated as incompatible then this is what happens unfortunately.

Well, I still wish to continue playing the GDMX gameplay changes alongside Revision maps. For me, they both make the perfect Deus Ex gaming experience (of course, NV and HDTP included )

Oh and what will you send me exactly (for the sword's changes)?

[gamer0004]

Also, can I have the source of the "sim team/RPG team" claim? Sounds far-fetched to me as there is more to DX and game development than just RPG and Sim design, though granted those are probably it's strongest aspects aside from the story. I remember hearing in a Spector lecture that there was two separate teams, but I never heard the team goals assigned.

From the DX postmortem:

I created two design teams, each with its own lead. (...) Two groups of people with differing philosophies -- a traditional RPG group and an immersive sim group.

[ggrotz]

What the market demands is better graphics, more cinematics, optimal accessibility and Goat Simulator.

Someone say GOAT??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MGAWx1nm48

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-S9PdLH99bU

[Cybernetic pig]

GOAT

*biggest fucking sigh*

From the DX postmortem:

I created two design teams, each with its own lead. (...) Two groups of people with differing philosophies -- a traditional RPG group and an immersive sim group.

Interesting. Spector, as producer, must have had fun attempting to get those two teams work to co-exist, producing the results we see in DX. Seems a bit impractical to me though, but Spector, as an industry vet, knew what he was doing and had the last say anyway. I know not how they operated, but I tried my best to advance the design of the game regardless.
I read the post-mortem before but it was some years ago now.

[Cybernetic pig]

Well, there you have it folks, one month since release...feedback from a guy who has never completed Deus Ex telling me why he won't play the mod, more from a guy who is not playing it as intended; with incompatible mods installed...he appears to be having fun regardless, at least.

I guess everyone really is playing Goat Simulator. Deus Ex 1.2fm (plain old objective improvements such as visible cloaking & bug fixes, in addition to nice extra depth to some systems and more) with a level of difficulty truer to it's roots and as a necessary result of balanced gameplay systems and more believable AI, was not wanted.

I know I haven't failed, however. I didn't add major features that are wholly incompatible with Deus Ex's original Design, such as skills for kills, or counter simulation convenience features, or skill points for drinking out of toilets. No, the mod was intended to advance the original design vision. very much hindered by a lack of support and a lack of team members, but I don't think I failed.
Suck on my arrogance. Hey, I can get away with it though because the devs done it:

"One of my goals for Deus Ex was - and I used to think about it this way - 'I want to shame developers; I want to shame my peers and force them to make different kinds of games'".

Article

I am no Warren Spector though and forgive my venting. Eh, it's probably entertaining for most
Hey Mr. Spector, this new generation of devs need shaming harder than ever before. The previous generation didn't get the message last time, apparently, and it's had a knock-on effect. It's primarily about business now anyway, not artistic expression.
...personally I think some studios were exempt from shaming, but for others, most certainly.
It's ironic that Deus Ex is the last game that truly raised the bar in regards to overall design (in my opinion). And System Shock, wow, such design innovation for it's time.
What does Spector have in the works now anyway, anything?

[Drewie]

... from a guy who is not playing it as intended; with incompatible mods installed...he appears to be having fun regardless, at least.

The only reason why I haven't played GDMX alone is simply because of the vanilla maps. Revision is like a drug, once you take it once, it's hard to stop. ;p

[Cybernetic pig]

They are not vanilla maps though:

MAPS:

Maps have been worked over on a large scale, but are not comparable to the 'Revision' mod. The focus is primarily on gameplay-related changes: ammo redistribution, AI behaviour, balance of paths, better events, many changes related to the skill system, small map expansions, bug fixes, small changes in the interest of realism and much more.
Predominantly gameplay-focused, but still some changes visually; better texture alignments (designed with New Vision and the DX10 renderer in mind), extra decorative detail for the most lacking of maps, and skybox improvements.
The map changes are not detailed in-depth for spoiler reasons. There is no need to know other than
this quick summary. Besides, detailing all changes would be a impossible task.

Designed with the excellent DX10 renderer and New Vision for best effect, not using those two mods certain things will not look right, such as the Battery park Skybox.

[Elias79]

Very impressive work, thanks for creating this mod, i cant wait for new updates.