And probably a few I've forgotten: there's actually quite a bit of 'green crosshair good, red crosshair BAAAAD' in the training mission.

And hey, it's not like FPS's never have friendly NPC's either. I mean Half-Life 2 had all those scientists and security guards. Sure you could kill them, but you didn't really have a reason to (except to get the pistol early, *cough*... but then DX does sort of encourage that same behaviour with the guard at the top of the statue ).

I don't know if this was mentioned but, Deus Ex: Revision is redoing all the maps so that they are a little more up-to-date. its only dealing with the maps not the storyline, so all the missions are the same you just have to do a different way.

anyway go to http://deusexrevision.ucoz.net/

Heh, I haven't played the training mission for a long time. Maybe it trains the player to kill robots. I really have no idea why the concept of good and invincible NPCs was so unfathomable, but it's happened that way before. Maybe he skipped the training, since many games have horrible training levels ("We're not going forward until you find the key combo for the prone position, which will not be used in this game again"). Can't really defend it, other than to say that many if not most FPS games just have the player shoot everything that moves and teaches that reaction. Just trying to think of a way to expose the slightly greater complexity in DX quickly, the way the developers in HL2 seemed to talk about player experience or play testing. Funny, how I think Deus Ex's problem is that everything else sucks.

I think the fact is that some people are sort of hopeless.

Someone who gets a message telling them to meet their brother, sees an apparently unarmed male who looks a lot like them running towards them, and then decides to kill the apparently unarmed guy is pretty bad off already. Those who decide that they'll never play the game again because they did the above ... I don't think games should be designed with them in mind.

That's not quite accurate. There is a place for shoot everything games. But I don't think that a game like Deus Ex should be designed to accommodate such people. That said, I think that Deus Ex like games could be designed so that they could be played by such people without problem. I know the TNM team worked hard to do just that, for the most part.

There's a distinction that I'm having trouble making clear.

Making Paul and various others invincible was to make sure that people couldn't break the game by being trigger happy, contriving a way to stick Paul in a bulletproof place when he meets you at the dock in case someone tried to kill all the good guys and then decided never to play again is pandering to the lunatic fringe.

On the other hand a Deus Ex like game where you could simply go in shooting everything and have the game progress naturally based on that would be quite nice (not that I have any idea how you'd make it off Liberty Island if Deus Ex did this) and people like jaf's friend would be able to enjoy it, but it wouldn't simply be accommodating that somewhat bizarre mindset, it would be taking freedom of choice to its logical extreme.

jaf, I mean no offence to your friend, though I find myself a bit perplexed.

No kidding, I have no idea. I've tried to figure out how he played it, why he hates it, and that's the best I could figure out. He mostly plays crappy FPS games, the unrealistic "combat simulators" with no teammates to shoot.

Changing the level a lot to fix this is too drastic. Taking the ammo away and then throwing some extra in one of the boxes at the end of the dock would accomplish the same thing. Not sure if it needs to be fixed, it was just something I noticed that was odd and could be anticipated. HL2 tried to anticipate so much....The developer's commentary (especially in Portal) was amusing. I usually had opposite reactions to what they had been planning for.

The Hong Kong market area video shows the single best piece of DX modding I've ever seen!!!
Hong Kong part was always my favorite part of the game as it is the most saturated part with different kinds of interaction, but this is something totally different. I can't wait to see what they did to other levels.
Personally in 2008 I'm not too worried about the polygon count on Unreal 1 engine, on Athlon 64 3200(not hot stuff but sufficient to max out many recent titles), 2GB RAM, and most important, GeForce 9600GT 512MB. I'm sure Unreal 1 engine limits would be reached before this setup would suffer from low framerate due to polygon count.
It won't hurt to freshen up the levels, however to retain the original gameplay it is better to only reshape(add polygon detail) the old levels and not construct completely new ones.

Some new update has been posted today!

Damn that's gonna be awesome, it will be like playing the whole thing again, except you know the story.
I could prolly walk the old levels with my eyes closed, I guess these are going to take some exploring to find stuff.
I wonder if their textures are high rez or if their textures could be updated by New Vision or whatever.
Btw, I suppose this would be considered as gameplay change as these levels have different geometry.

I believe he's just rearranging the levels. That's why he's fast
I believe we could apply HDTP&NV later

He is just changing the level design, and adding new characters in some places. Changing textures on generic people and stuff... Nothing that requires VA though. HDTP and New Vision will be compatible with Revision...

This is a place holder.