Unfinished Anna Navarra

ZylonBane · Post by **ZylonBane** » Fri Aug 18, 2006 1:53 pm

TheOneTheyCallTonnochi wrote:It needs alot of work so it looks more like the original Anna. Looks to simplified, but I guess thats just because it's UNFINISHEDlol.

Wow. You dug up a thread over a month old just to state the obvious and say LOL?

Please do the world a favor and go jump in a woodchipper.

EER · Post by **EER** » Fri Aug 18, 2006 7:27 pm

So, while this topic is way up here anyway, how's Anna coming along?

Dominic_Denton · Post by **Dominic_Denton** » Fri Aug 18, 2006 9:54 pm

ZylonBane wrote:
TheOneTheyCallTonnochi wrote:It needs alot of work so it looks more like the original Anna. Looks to simplified, but I guess thats just because it's UNFINISHEDlol.
Wow. You dug up a thread over a month old just to state the obvious and say LOL?

Please do the world a favor and go jump in a woodchipper.

That was, uhh.......nice!

Hopefully Anna is doing well.

Mr_Cyberpunk · Post by **Mr_Cyberpunk** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 1:05 pm

Bumpidy Bumpidy and up goes your post count

I'm still waiting for JC to be textured.

justanotherfan · Post by **justanotherfan** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 1:07 am

Shh! Don't say anything about this. I didn't post it. You didn't see it. Loose lips delete threads.

(redacted)

Quoting what was edited into my post by Master_Kale wrote:Dude, the new Anna thread was deleted for a reason...lets keep Anna under wraps until WE'RE ready to release it, ok? - Master_Kale

Meh, ok. Figured the thread was deleted because of arguing I didn't see pre-deletion. The image was released by the texturer, so I reposted it in the real Anna thread. If anyone missed it PM me.

I'm unhappy about how any suggestions offered for new characters are derided or ignored. Some people argue and troll, but they can be ignored instead. I understand completely if and only if the new Anna was an early work in progress, even though I don't like being censored for anything. I don't like the idea of characters being posted only when done. New lamps and tables can be done that way, but I don't like characters done that way.

Post by **Jonas** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:32 am

Well I'm not a big fan of deleting threads, but these aren't my forums, and if I were Alex, ZylonBane's first post would've probably been enough to make me leave these forums. That guy just does not know how to give critique, and his posts makes all the balanced and pleasant critique seem insulting by mere association (yes Zylon, they do).

I can understand if the HDTP guys want to prevent people from pissing off their only character texturer too much, because if Alex leaves the team (which it seemed to me he was pretty close to doing in that Anna thread), this whole project would once again be in deep shit.

So you all just gotta ask yourselves: Would you rather be forced to reevaluate the way you see some of these characters, or would you prefer to play with the old one? Because you may not know this, but the final version of HDTP will come with the option of not installing the new character files, and given that I don't remember a single positive comment on the characters from you, ZylonBane, you're probably going to want to make use of that.

If you only remember one sentence from this post, let this be it: Nobody can please everybody all of the time. Even JC, that most of you agree was spot on in the first attempt, received some flack in the comments for the news post ("This is a good modelling and texturing job, but it is NOT JC Denton." - WTF? Do you have a photo of the actual guy, or are you just assuming your own mental image of him is universal, Daedalus? Crazy Russian

).

If HDTP decides to take the bullet and attempt to accept more of our feedback in the future, I'll be amazed, but I won't be surprised, because they care. However, if they decide they're not going to take all this crap, but just complete the models according to their own (quite harsh) quality standards from now on, I'll respect that. You know why? Because I haven't done a frickin' thing to help these people, so I have no right to demand they accomodate my requests for changes to their models.

This rant was brought to you by Worried Moderators of Other Forums Ldt.

ThalesA7X · Post by **ThalesA7X** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:45 am

Jonas wrote:*removed perfect rant to save space*

You are now my best friend. You said every little thing I was thinking but was too lazy to type.
~<3 heart shaped balloons for Jonas. ~<3

James T · Post by **James T** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:46 am

It's a shame that thread is gone, I thought it contained some good posts (didn't see the argument which ended it).

I agree that comments like 'That is not Walton Simons!' etc are essentially useless, and should be tossed aside, but as I was saying on the dead thread, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater -- there has been valid commentary about anatomy, neglected design elements, and, very occasionally, the odd decent extra suggestion. Idiots are going to be idiots no matter what, but what are the rest of us to make of preview screenshots? In design classes, in art school, among friends, etc etc, responding to a preview with a mere dismissive 'keep it up' is worthless; it's much more useful to the artist to provide one's informed opinion on basics which may have been overlooked. A dispassionate viewing from an uninvolved party can bring previously-unseen but important flaws to light (I'm assuming there isn't that much in the way way of pre-release playtesting for HDTP, judging by the fiddling required right after package 1).
If the problem is that HDTP has become an unwieldy nightmare the creators want to complete and get away from ASAP, then I can understand the sour attitude taken to even the friendliest of critics, but in that case, I'd suggest not revealing a whit of the changes until their packages are released. Previews invite criticism, good and bad.

Post by **Jonas** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:23 am

James T wrote:...then I can understand the sour attitude taken to even the friendliest of critics

Actually I think that's because the unfriendly critics spilled over. Like I said, the whiners made the decent criticism seem insulting by association, if that makes sense.

James T · Post by **James T** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:37 am

Yeah, I know whatcha mean -- the important difference between subtlety and 'I pictured JC as having more of a pompadour'.

Post by **DDL** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:06 pm

The sad thing is that ZylonBane is actually pretty talented: anyone who's used his system shock texture pack can tell you that.

So theoretically he could offer really useful, constructive criticism.

It's just a shame that he ALWAYS decides instead to be a sarcastic, egotistical douchebag.

I'd guess this is part of the reason he seems to hate Kieron Gillen so much. They're both a bit like that, but Kieron has the advantage of actually being funny.

giantzucchini · Post by **giantzucchini** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 1:10 pm

Well, kinda disappointed that the thread is gone, was looking forward to seeing other people's views on Anna, but I guess if the majority of the team feels it was not ready for public viewing (which I would have agreed to anyway), then its something we'll just have to accept. I echo everything Jonas posted and if its true that ZylonBane has done it yet again, then I can fully understand the actions of the team. Hopefully we get to see a more finished version of Anna sometime in the near future.

justanotherfan · Post by **justanotherfan** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:48 pm

Jonas wrote:Like I said, the whiners made the decent criticism seem insulting by association, if that makes sense.

Thanks, that makes me feel better about that :)

Alex would have left maybe? Thats impressive. HDTP's task is similar to "Rewrite and fix the Holy Book. Be sure not to leave out the important stuff", and melodrama and insult is too easy on the internet (eg. "I'm leaving you now...", "You suck!!1"). I figured it would be easily ignored. I'm terrible with names, so I don't remember what ZylonBane said, but anything harsh was undeserved. New-Anna is really close.

Gunther is finished. JC can be finished as its only stylistic changes that can be done. Anna just IMHO needs a couple of tweaks (front arm metal texture highlights, back pocket texture or model) and the rest is stylistic. Paul Denton is the only other character that matters to the feel of the game, and he had more detail in the original than JC (eg. eyebrows, facial hair, eyes), and he can use JC's model.

If posting WIP stuff isn't to get suggestions, a disclaimer about that would be good ("This is currently for your entertainment, no suggestions needed yet, WorkInProgress"). If no suggestions are wanted, I don't like/understand it, but we're just fans of HDTP.

ZylonBane · Post by **ZylonBane** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:52 pm

DDL wrote:The sad thing is that ZylonBane is actually pretty talented: anyone who's used his system shock texture pack can tell you that.

I'm not talented, I'm just obsessive-compulsive about detail.

As for the Anna thread, well-- I can't ask that people go back and re-read because it's gone now, but in fact the VERY FIRST THING I said was that it was technically excellent (or words to that effect). I then said I didn't like it, and explained exactly why I didn't like it, without resorting to insults or namecalling. The only thing I outright attacked was the IDEA that Anna is just evil. Evil is boring. Morally ambiguous is interesting.

I swear to god, some people around here are driven screaming into the fetal position by the slightest hint of argument or controversy.

Post by **Jonas** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:34 pm

Well I was probably a bit harsh on you, but the fact remains you always come across as quite an arrogant and negative sort of person. It's not so much your critique as the form and persistence of it we object to